Genealogy Chat

There's an Eccleston family at no 14:
Percy and Ellen, with children Robert and Sarah. No John.

At no 2 there's William and Sarah Morris with son George.

But no sign of any of the other names in Smith Street, Ancoats, in 1861.




William Merns
in the 1861 England Census
Name: William Merns
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Mernis
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: St Jude
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 2 Smith Street
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 118
Piece: 2935
Folio: 54
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
William Merns 44
Sarah Mernis 37
George Mernis 18


Pericey Eccelston
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Pericey Eccelston
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ellen Eccelston
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: St Jude
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 14 Smith Street
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 109
Piece: 2935
Folio: 53
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Pericey Eccelston 26
Ellen Eccelston 24
Robert Eccelston 3
Sarah Eccelston 1
Mary Walker 20 - sister-in-law, boarder
Fanny Walker 14 - sister-in-law, boarder

This is my last go looking for James Booth. Fine Spinner...!

Firstly both he and the other James Booth the shoemaker are shown on the 1863 Slaters Trade Directory.
'Mine' at the 10 Smith Street, Ancoats address.
James Booth Shoemaker, at 114 Medlock Street , he i presume the one born in Cheshire.
Since Margaret Massey nee Booth died in September 1872, there are no other entries on the census Cant find her 1841 0r 1851.

What I was curious about - is the census for 1861, when one would think that the other inhabitants of Smith Street, Ancoats-- shown there on the Poor Rate book would be.
they are = John Eccleston, Thomas Greenhalgh, Eph Foster, Joseph Barker, William Morris, William Cornwall and Henry Sharrocks.

could someone with , address access to the 1861 census check this please?

thank you- I realise its a big ask. so understand if not possible,

...

Thank you all for your efforts and suggestions.

Its seems clear the whilst James Booth is shown on the poor rate books as a tenant he is not on the census returns, for that address in 1861.
I know that they are not 100% , and that some of the smaller streets were missed, and also mis-reported or people away from home.

I think I shall have to give up on this one. Thanks again for your help

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1377052

just to confuse things there are 2 George & Margaret Massey families in Lancashire

1871

George Massey 32 spinner
Margaret Massey 33
John Thos Massey 10
Winefred Massey 6
Henry Massey 4
Margaret Massey 2 - think this one was registered as Martha

all with mmn Gillibrand

The Slaters Trade Directory of Manchester 1863, has a James Booth , Spinner, as at 10 Smith Street ( runs off Junction street - a continuation of Carruthers street ,Ancoats- near the Bank of England pub).

There is also an entry on the Poor Rate Tax list which shows him at this address for a number of years -1858 - 1863, so paying the tax.
However the house at 10 Smith street, st Judes- Ancoats on the 1861 census does not show him as the occupant., but a Samuel Hardman? and wife.
I presume he has sub let the house. Or the enumerator did not complete the form?

So I know now he existed at this address and as a spinner,( at some point.) but dont know how to follow this lead...?
any suggestions please

Related thread:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1375783

Found this for those interested in the Textile industry in Manchester ;-

Fine Spinners and Doublers,

formed from a group of spinning companies specialising in fine Sea Island Cottons, was registered on 31 March 1898.[1]
The Fine Cotton Spinners and Doublers Association Limited had the objective of promoting the interests of cotton spinners in North West England.[2] It was founded through the efforts of Herbert Dixon and Scott Lings in 1897.
Businesses that joined in this enterprise at the time included A&G Murray Ltd, Houldsworths, CE Bennett & Co, James & Wainwright Bellhouse and McConnell & Co; but many more followed in subsequent years.[2][3]

The new association was vast compared with its competitors and its large size enabled it to secure its supplies of cotton from the Sea Island and Egypt.[2] For thirty years it was the world's largest cotton-spinning concern, expanding to operate 60 mills and employ 30,000 operatives.[3]

Looking at the children in the 1871 census (in case they were with grandparents in other censuses as suggested) -

their father George remarried, very quickly after Margaret's death :



William H. Massey
in the 1881 England Census
Name: William H. Massey
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relationship to Head: Step Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Beswick
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 7 Reservoir St
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Prestwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Neighbors:
Piece: 4019
Folio: 18
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Massey 48 - widow
Sarah Massey 14 - stepdaughter
William H. Massey 12 - stepson
Amelia Stanway 77 - mother
Catherine Stanway 27 - sister
Ann J. Stanway 2 - niece
Elizabeth Coulten 48 - visitor


Ann Stanaway
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Ann Stanaway
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 22 Dec 1872
Marriage Place: Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England
Spouse: George Massey
FHL Film Number: 438229, 438230, 438231, 438232, 438233



Deaths Sep 1872 (>99%)
MASSEY Margaret 32 Manchester 8d 130


Then Ann in her turn remarried in 1881, to Thomas Irving, in Northenden, Lancs..

Thank you all

It seems Margaret was buried at Ardwick Cem. in September 1872
the details say she was born 1840.

She is present on the 1871 census for Harding Street, with 4 children a husband and two lodgers... Born Manchester.

Thank you all

It seems Margaret was buried at Ardwick Cem. in September 1872
the details say she was born 1840.

She is present on the 1871 census for Harding Street, with 4 children a husband and two lodgers... Born Manchester.

I would think it did refer to a spinner of silk ......... but I can't find Fine Weaver or Fine Spinner listed under any old occupations.

Silk weaving was common in parts of Cheshire, especially Macclesfield, where there is still a silk mill that operates as a tourist attraction. A small amount of silk weaving might also have taken place in Manchester, although cotton and wool were more common.

It's just that I've never seen that description used.

Thank you

Margaret Booth married George Massey, Baker, - she died in 1871?
and he died in April 1879, while he was Sect. of the Manchester Bakers Union.
They are buried at the Ardwick cemetery., Manchester south.
He was born in Rosthern parish Cheshire, and came to Manchester at about 16 yrs old.

I presumed that the term ' fine spinner ' was a type of thread, possibly silk? and unlikely to refer to any other trade?

I wondered even though she was living in Manchester at the time of her marriage she might have been in lodgings near to her place of work, rather than with her family?

This is that same family in 1841. James is a Shoe Maker

1841 Census

Name: James Booth
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Manchester
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats

Piece: 577
Book: 21
Folio: 35
Page Number: 13

James Booth 30 Not Born in County, Shoe Maker
Mary Booth 40
Mary Booth 5
Margaret Booth 2
James Booth 1 Mo

Address:- Ashton Street


from Lancs opc

Baptism: 6 Jul 1836 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mary Booth - daughter of James Booth & Mary
Abode: Manchr
Occupation: Cordwainer
Baptised by: H. Fielding
Register: Baptisms 1836, Page 394, Entry 3146
Source: LDS Film 1545610

I can't find other baptisms.



This is the ONLY Margaret with father James that I can find.

You might have to consider the possibility that a) she didn't give the correct occupation for her father, or b) she didn't give the correct name for father either because she didn't know him because he had left the family while she was very young or she was illegitimate.

There is always the possibility that she lied about her age, and was under the age of 21 when they got married

There is only one Margaret Booth with father James shown on lancs opc born in the right time period IF she gave her correct age on the marriage certificate.

This baptism occurred in Blackburn ............. have you discovered where she was born from any censuses after she was married???

Baptism: 30 Nov 1838 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Peggy Booth - Daughter of James Booth & Scott
Abode: Blackburn
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: P. Maitland
Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1839, Page 349
Source: LDS Film 1278805


Note that James' occupation is shown as Weaver .......................


as someone whose family is from Lancashire, I have seen many descriptions of occupations, but I have not seen Fine Weaver or Fine Weaver given on a census, so it might be better NOT to use that as a criterion for finding James.



I'm posting this even though the occupation is wrong. Margaret is the correct age, the location is correct, although James is NOT a Fine Weaver ...............

1851 Census

England Census

Name: Margaret Booth
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: James Booth
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, , England Lancashire
Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 1mm

Household schedule number: 228
Piece: 2226
Folio: 453
Page Number: 61

James Booth 40 b.ca 1811, Mottram, Cheshire, Boot and Shoe Maker
Mary Booth 15 b.ca 1836. Manchester, Weaver
Margaret Booth 12

Address:- 97 Pollard St

1851 census posted above for Catherine the mother.

Children on there ie Moses, Richard and Charles had mums maiden name as Cuerdon/Kuerdon.

Maryb.

Aged 22 on 1st Jan 1861 means born no later than 1st Jan 1839

?? Possible 2 births but not all were registered

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BOOTH, MARGARET THOMPSON
GRO Reference: 1838 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 20 Page 473

BOOTH, MARGARET SANDHAM
GRO Reference: 1841 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 20 Page 629

Is this your Margaret?

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Harding Street, Manchester, Lancashire, England.

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Massey Head - Male 35 1836 - Cheshire, England
Margaret Massey Wife - Female 31 1840 - Lancashire, England
Alfred Massey Son - Male 9 1862 - Lancashire, England
Annie Massey Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Lancashire, England
Sarah Massey Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Lancashire, England
William H Massey Son - Male 1 1870 - Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Boardman Lodger - Female 43 1828 - Lancashire, England
Marthan Ann Boardman Lodger Daur - Female 20 1851 - Lancashire, England

Margaret b Manchester
George a Journeyman Baker

Have you followed Margaret through the census' to check if James living with them at all, or if any children may have spent time with grandparents?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1861 (>99%)
Booth Margaret Manchester 8d 501
HARTLE Margaret Manchester 8d 501
MASSEY George Manchester 8d 501 <<<<<<<<<
Timperley Joseph Manchester 8d 501

-----------------------
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1861
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BOOTH Margaret MASSEY George Manchester, St. Philip Archives+, Manchester Central Library