Genealogy Chat

HI All,

I was wondering if somebody could shed some light on a family mystery that has had me stumped for a few years. I have paper documentation for a Robert Cox born 15/06/1849 in 28 tothill street Westminster. I also have his baptism as 14/05/1852 at St Matthews Great Peter Street Westminster ( i have seen the original record at westminster archives) . He was baptised under hos mothers name but father down as Robert Sadler. i have the family living together at in 1851 census lived 28 tothill Westminster Middlesex .HO107/1480 folio 258 page 11. The baptism was with his brother John Cox born 01/04/1852.

i believe this family had 4 children but i have never found a marriage for Robert Sadler and Charlotte Cox ( parents) . Would it be normal practice to have 4 children and not marry in those days. Their names swapped between Cox and Sadler on documents . Any help gratefully received.

Many thanks in advance

Absolutely - 'living in sin' was more common than you'd like to think. One of them may already be married to someone else, there may have been religious differences, or they just weren't bothered about a bit of paper.

Although your documentation shows name swapping, If the mother had been widowed, you may have to look for a marriage in her married name.

I thought that Robert Sadler may have been married before but was unable to prove definitely , cross checking etc. But he was clearly down on baptism records for two of the four children. Charlotte was never down on census as widow . Ive only been able to trace two of the four childrens line, with paperwork. I wonder if mr sadler was a prisoner as constantly doing a disappearing act.

many thanks for your help though.

For our info.............1851

Tothill Street, Saint Margaret, Westminster, London & Middlesex, England

Robert Sadler Head Married Male 31 1820 Coal Porter Westminster, Middlesex, England
Charlotte Sadler Wife Married Female 32 1819 Wife Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
Catherine Sadler Daughter - Female 9 1842 - Westminster, Middlesex, England
Robert Sadler Son - Male 2 1849 - Westminster, Middlesex, England

If this is him (a porter, as in 1851) in 1841, he appears to have been single then - at least there are no Coxes or Sadlers with him.


Robert Sadler
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Robert Sadler
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Dunstan in The West
Hundred: London Without the Walls
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: West London
Sub-registration district: South
Neighbors:
Piece: 726
Book: 9
Folio: 5
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Sadler 20


I don't see a marriage of a Robert Sadler to a Charlotte of any surname.

COX, ROBERT - No MMN on record
GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in WESTMINSTER Volume 01 Page 474

Ditto

COX, JOHN -
GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in WESTMINSTER Volume 01A Page 213

thank you all so much. This is the information i had but not able to trace anymore backwards or even sideways ,which sometimes helps. Not able to find any criminal proceedings except one in 1847 for a Robert Cox who stole from his master. I wouldnt have thought a coal porter would have a master as such. There are so many lose ends.

Robert Cox born 1849 appears in 1871 census with a Henry and Sarah Cox ( not sure of relationship) however he is living next door to his future wide Agnes Amelia North. So this information must be correct, but has him as son of Henry and Sarah.

All very confusing and may never unravel it.

thanks so much for the help already

For our reference:


Robert Cox
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Robert Cox
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Son
Father's name: Henry Cox
Mother's name: Sarah Cox
Gender: Male
Where born: Westr, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St John The Evangelist
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: St John Westminster
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 198
Piece: 119
Folio: 71
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Cox 60
Sarah Cox 70
Robert Cox 24 - son
William Cox 16 - son


William must surely be a grandson, not a son - Sarah would have been about 54 when he was born.

Robert could be either a son or a grandson of Sarah. Sarah is old enough for Charlotte to be her daughter - but Henry isn't!
That's assuming correct ages on the census forms.

Confusing, as you say!

When Robert Cox married Agnes North, he named his father as Robert Sadler

So the parents simply didn't marry

thanks so much for all the help. I don't suppose i will ever know why they didn't marry. i just thought it would have been a huge stigma in those days. But as you suggest it was common practice for those that didn't share religions.

Elizabeth ......

I sometimes think it was more common for couples to live together without marriage back then than it is these days!!

Marriages broke down just as often as they do now, sometimes very soon after the marriage (eg, a shotgun marriage!), sometimes after many years. But divorce was impossible for all but the very wealthy, so most of our ancestors could not separate themselves legally, and if they met someone else, well, they just had to live together.

In my experience, difference in religion played only a small part in these cases ............. it was far more common to find that at least one of them was still married to someone else. It is fairly common to find couples marrying many years later after the first spouse has died ................... and some of them have many more than 4 children!

It might be worth your while to look for a marriage right up to the day that the first of Robert or Charlotte died.

A quick glance at FreeBMD shows that the earliest marriage of a Robert Sadler (or variation of spelling) to a Charlotte anywhere in England/Wales was in 1919 - so it doesn't look as if they married at all.