Genealogy Chat

Vardy seems just to have been a variation of Verdon - maybe a mis-hearing or assumption of the spelling of the name by the registrar.

Who registered Horace's birth? Was it Elizabeth herself, or someone such as the workhouse superintendent?

Re searching workhouse records, just Google "Croydon workhouse".
This link:

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Croydon/

Scroll right down to the bottom for info re what records are held and where.
Apparently they include records of admissions and discharges 1903-31.

Not searchable online at home, though.

"These collections can then be viewed by appointment, at the Museum of Croydon Research Room. To request to see material from our archive collections, please contact us at [email protected] providing details of your enquiry and the reference number of the collection(s) of interest."
http://www.museumofcroydon.com/ixbin/indexplus?record=ART8699

Also, can I search for workhouse records online?

I very much appreciate your help ArgyllGran.
Please excuse my naivety but how do you get from Elizabeth Vardy to Elizabeth Verdon?

It's impossible to say if the marriage cert would help or not, Karen.
It's up to you to decide if you think it's worth the gamble.

If his father was unknown, there MIGHT be something about his mother.
Or it might say his father was George Mitchell, as George appears to have brought him up from toddlerhood.
It may be that George actually was his father, but there's no way of proving that.

So just to confirm patchem, do you think it would help if I got Horace R Vardi's marriage certificate?

And more (as well as some on the other thread):


Births -

MITCHELL, DAVID JOHN VERDON
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in EPSOM Volume 02A Page 17

MITCHELL, ERNEST OLIVER VERDEN
GRO Reference: 1897 D Quarter in EPSOM Volume 02A Page 7


Deaths:

MITCHELL, DAVID JOHN 0
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in EPSOM Volume 02A Page 13

MITCHELL, ERNEST OLIVER 0
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in EPSOM Volume 02A Page 10

Another child , who died:

MITCHELL, CHARLES HENRY mms VERDEN
GRO Reference: 1892 M Quarter in EPSOM Volume 02A Page 2



MITCHELL, CHARLES HENRY 0
GRO Reference: 1892 M Quarter in EPSOM Volume 02A Page 3

Possibly George in 1881 in the same workhouse ??


George Mitchell
in the 1881 England Census
Name: George Mitchell [ unmarried ]
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relationship to Head: Pauper
Gender: Male
Where born: Croydon, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: "Queens Rd Duppas Hill Workhouse and Infirmary"
Occupation: Agr Labr
Registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: Workhouse and Infirmary
Neighbors:
Piece: 825
Folio: 113
Page Number: 15

Oh, Rats.

Thank-you, ArgyllGran

I've just realised this has all been done before.

Previous thread of Karen's about Horace:

https://www.genesreunited.com.au/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1367074

In that thread I suggested this marriage as maybe being Elizabeth's:

Marriages Dec 1889 (>99%)
MITCHELL George Croydon 2a 512
VERDEN Elizabeth Croydon 2a 512

and followed through with the family in 1891 and 1901 - including a Horace Reginald Mitchell born 1886 in (per 1901 census) or 1889 (per 1891).

Looking at it all again now, I feel sure this is the right family.
I won't copy all the censuses and other records here - they're all on the other thread.

There's no matching birth record of a Horace Reginald Mitchell.

I don't see any of the family in 1911 (apart from "our" Horace who has returned to his birth surname).
The daughter Elizabeth Harriet is in a home in Croydon in 1939, detained under the Lunacy Act - record is on other thread.

In 1901 Horace Mitchell is a "van guard / carter [some word I can't make out] ", and in 1911 Horace Vardi is a "carter on general carriers".



Elizabeth in 1881 ?? Domestic servant at Croydon Workhouse Infirmary

Elizabeth Verdon
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Verdon
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relationship to Head: Pauper
Gender: Female
Where born: Mitcham, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: "Workhouse and Infirmary" Queens Road
Occupation: Dom Servant
Registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: Workhouse and Infirmary
Neighbors:
Piece: 825
Folio: 116
Page Number: 22

As you cannot find him in 1891 or 1901, there might be some useful information on the marriage certificate - names of witnesses, if related, or some further clue to his Mother.

Your great-grandfather's death certificate wouldn't give his father's name and even if his marriage certificate DID show a father's name then it is likely that this would either be "made up" so as to save face in front of his in-laws, or it would be a step-father's name if his mother subsequently married. If his birth certificate didn't give a father's name then I don't think you are likely to ever know who his father was (unless his baptism record gives a likely father).

Kath. x

Wow, thank you all so much. I had already researched the Vardi family from the early 20th century as they lived in or around Penge (now SE London) as this is where my mother was born & grew up.

ArgyllGran, I came to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that this Sarah Elizabeth Vardy was my relative as I've heard of a Walter being in the family & so she seemed to "fit".

Please advise me.....should I get a marriage or death certificate for my Great Gandfather Horace Reginald Vardi, i.e. would either of these certificates show a fathers name.....?

Any further advise would be greatly appreciated.

Or she may have assumed Horace's father's name for respectability, without being married.
There were a number of Verdis in England in 1881, mainly in Portsea and London. The Portsea Verdis included two British sailors born in Corfu (father and son) in the Royal Navy.

I had hopes of the younger one, Denis / Dennis / Dennes - but he married in 1883

No way - at the moment - of knowing if Elizabeth was even English

Unfortunately there are lots of girls called Elizabeth Vardy or Varty, born in various places.

She could have gone to Croydon from anywhere, and wasn't necessarily there at the time of any census.

Is there a reason you picked out Sarah Elizabeth in particular?

so is this her marriage -
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1887 (>99%)
Butt Helena I.Wight 2b 930
OSMOND James Henry I Wight 2b 930 <<<<<<<<<
Searle Samuel Joseph I. Wight 2b 930
Vardy Sarah Elizabeth I. Wight 2b 930 <<<<<<<<

-----------------------------
Isle of Wight BMD Marriage Records
SARAH ELIZABETH VARDY% between 1887 and 1887

Year Groom Surname Forename(s) Bride Surname Forename(s) Place Register
held Ref
(new window)
1887 OSMOND James Henry VARDY Sarah Elizabeth St Mary, Carisbrooke With Registrar
---------------------------

England Marriages 1538-1973

First name(s) James Henry
Last name Osmond
Name note -
Age 20
Birth place Of Southampton
Marriage year 1887
Marriage date 16 May 1887
Marriage place Carisbrooke
Father's first name(s) Robert
Father's last name Osmond
Spouse's first name(s) Sarah Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Vardy
Spouse's birth year 1868
Spouse's birth date 1868
Spouse's father's first name(s) Henry
Spouse's father's last name Varey
Residence Carisbrooke, Hampshire, England
County Hampshire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973

Just to follow the Sarah Elizabeth Vardy you mention -

Sarah Elizabeth or Elizabeth Vardy in 1881

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Bucklers Hard, Beaulieu, New Forest, Hampshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Vardy Head Married Male 40 1841 Blacksmith Beaulieu, Hampshire, England
Sarah Vardy Wife Married Female 37 1844 - Beaulieu, Hampshire, England
Walter Vardy Son Single Male 16 1865 Ag Lab Beaulieu, Hampshire, England
Arthur Vardy Son Single Male 13 1868 Ag Lab ((Scholar)) Beaulieu, Hampshire, England
Elizabeth Vardy Daughter Single Female 12 1869 Scholar Beaulieu, Hampshire, England
Blanche Vardy Daughter Single Female 10 1871 Scholar Beaulieu, Hampshire, England
Joseph Vardy Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar Beaulieu, Hampshire, England
Bertie Vardy Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Beaulieu, Hampshire, England
Lucy Vardy Daughter Single Female 4 1877 Scholar Beaulieu, Hampshire, England
John Vardy Son Single Male 3 1878 Scholar Beaulieu, Hampshire, England

--------------------------
Henry and his wife with Arthur, Blanche and John (plus Grandson William) are in Lymongton, Hants in 1891

Kent, Bromley Absent Voters List 1918
First name(s) Horace Reginald
Last name Vardi
Gender Male
Service number T3/024138
Rank Corporal
Unit/Regiment 161st Co ASC
Service Army
Year 1918
Address 7 Heath Grove
Ward Penge II
Place Bromley
County Kent
Country England
Description Absent Voters List, Bromley Council 1918

Have you found a death or marriage for Elizabeth, and does he name a Father on his marriage certificate?