Genealogy Chat

Children of the marriage?

Births Dec 1934 (>99%)
Pearce Maureen Todd Richmond Y. 9d 936
Births Sep 1937 (>99%)
Pearce Edwin Todd Richmond Y. 9d 991

Has anyone tried to trace - and maybe contact - either of them?

On the 1947 ER in Skipton, Charles H Pearce was living in the same house as a woman named NELLIE Pearce, and in 1945, he was on his own.

What makes you think this is the man who was born in Warwickshire?

OK - found the marriage NO second name for the bride, so where does the 'info' come from about Miss Todd?

Elizabeth Todd born 11/11/1909 in 1939 ......................... unmarried (As per post above)


Name: Elizabeth H Todd
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 11 Nov 1909
Residence Year: 1939
Address: The Lodge Nunthorpe Hall Nunthorpe
Residence Place: Stokesley, Yorkshire (North Riding), England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 81
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: JHUE
Registration district: 534-3
Inferred Father: George F Todd
Inferred Mother: Mary A Todd
Household Members:
Name
George F Todd
Mary A Todd
Elizabeth H Todd
Alan T Todd
Gordon G Todd

From an age point of view, these would fit (assuming 14/11/1907 is correct for his birth, as Bob has stated):

Deaths Jun 1963 (>99%)
PEARCE CHARLES H 55 BIRMINGHAM 9C 189

Deaths Jun 1959 (>99%)
PEARCE Charles 51 Wednesbury 9b 688

The Birmingham one looks more likely, especially if he still had family living in Birmingham.

But of course these are only suggestions.

Has anyone actually found the alleged marriage?

I can't see one on frebmd

There are actually three trees on Ancestry .

One says Charles died 1968 in Salisbury - no proof, and I don't see such a death record. That tree also says his wife's name was Maureen - no surname, 1907-80. No proof.

One doesn't name his wife, but also says Charles died 1968 Salisbury - no proof given.

The third one I'm assuming is the niece's, as it names Elizabeth (1909 - 75) as his wife. It says she died in Colchester in 1975 (though there's a question mark added) but gives the probate record for the totally different Helen Elizabeth Pearce who was born in 1887.
Ah, the supposed death of Charles has changed since the last time I looked at it. Originally it was for a Henry Pearce who died in Basingstoke in 1968.
Now it's this one which is claimed to be his death:

Charles H Pearce
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Charles H Pearce
Death Age: 59
Birth Date: abt 1909
Registration Date: Dec 1968
Registration district: Hendon
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 222


EDIT:

The Basingstoke death is also an Ancestry suggestion which pops up when you look at Charles and his parents and siblings in 1911 - so it's been taken as fact.

The niece therefore not only has the wrong date of death for Elizabeth on her tree, but also the wrong DOB.

The tree says she was born 11/11 /1909 in Stainton, Yorkshire.

It looks as if the niece has seen Ancestry's suggestions and accepted them as fact.

Looking at Elizabeth and Charles H's marriage record, on Ancestry, Ancestry suggests she was an Elizabeth Helen Todd on 1911 census, born Stainton.
The same Elizabeth was also with her parents George and Mary in 1939, DOB 11/11/1909, living in Stokesley, Yorkshire - unmarried.

Ancestry also suggests (wrongly) the probate record for Helen Elizabeth Pearce (who was a third different person) which the niece has put on her tree as proof of death.

Just to prove that is the correct Elizabeth on the 1939 register

Marriages Jun 1953 (>99%)
ARNOLD Thomas E TODD Leeds 2c 679
ARNOLD Thomas E PEARCE Leeds 2c 679
TODD Elizabeth ARNOLD Leeds 2c 679
PEARCE Elizabeth. ARNOLD. Leeds. 2c. 679



So it would appear that Charles either died before 1953 or they divorced before 1953. A copy of Elizabeth's marriage to Thomas should show if she was widowed or divorced.

This looks like the death of the Elizabeth on the 1939 register.

First name(s) ELIZABETH
Last name ARNOLD
Gender Female
Birth day 6
Birth month 4
Birth year 1914
Age -
Death quarter 4
Death year 1988
District Colchester
Register number 1088
County Essex
Volume 9
Page 2118
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England

And even if that's her , there's still no matching death in 1975 in Richmond.

The children were born in Richmond. Could this be Elizabeth on the 1939 register?

1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
Arnold (Pearce) Household (3 People)
Hudswell , Richmond R.D., Yorkshire (North Riding), England

Elizabeth Arnold (Pearce)
DOB 06 Apr 1914
SEX Female
OCCUPATION Unpaid Domestic Duties
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 48
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 1

Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Ref: RG101/3292A/007/18 Letter Code: JHPX
© Findmypast Ltd


If that's your Elizabeth, she remarried in 1953 so either Charles had died before then or they divorced.

I don't see a record of Elizabeth's death in Richmond in 1975 - or anywhere in England/Wales, for that matter.

The tree says she died on 1/1/1975 in Colchester, Essex - but I don't see a record of that death either.

Does the niece have a copy of her death cert?

Thanks for not giving up. His wife Elizabeth H Todd died in 1975 in Richmond Yorks. We do know for certain that Charles died in 1968 as the family were still in contact. As I mentioned earlier, his niece, ( I think she is my second cousin) is after his death cert in order to get his military records. He was awarded a BEM when he was a corporal in the R.Sigs in Italy.

http://iccslondon.co.uk/the-sites/islington-crematorium/

Contact Islington Crematorium
278 High Rd,
London N2 9AG
020 7527 8300


Online contact form:

http://iccslondon.co.uk/contact-us/?scrollto=contact-form

For cremated remains to be interred, one would imagine that date and place of death might be recorded.
I wonder if more information about that could be obtained from the relevant cemetery authorities.

If the 1968 death for Elizabeth is not the correct one, then they may indeed have emigrated. However, they probably flew, and therefore there won't be any online record.

How do you and the niece "know" that he died in 1968 if you haven't found his death record?

This is the death offered as "proof" on the Ancestry tree - but I doubt it. The name Charles isn't mentioned:

Deaths Dec 1968 (>99%)
PEARCE HENRY 60 BASINGSTOKE 6B 82

The 1975 cremation posted by Shirley is a possibility - although he wasn't the only Charles Henry Pearce, the cremation record doesn't give the deceased's age, and I can't see a death record for your Charles in 1975.

If that's the correct Charles, because it specifies "cremated remains", I wonder if he died abroad, and his ashes were brought back to England for burial?


The tree says that Elizabeth Helen died in 1975 in Essex, and gives this probate record as "proof":

PEARCE, Helen Elizabeth of 21 Wayside Ave, Hornchurch, Essex, died 1 January 1975. Probate Ipswich 24 April. £9024. 751003544E

But that relates to this death, which is clearly not the correct person, as Elizabeth was born in 1909 (per the tree).

Deaths Mar 1975 (99%)
Pearce Helen Elizabeth 26Mr1887 Barking 11 122

The 1968 death posted by Shirley looks much more likely.
According to the tree, they were living in Skipton, W Yorkshire in 1947.

I will have to hand this back to the niece. We know that he died in 1968, the problem is that we can find no record of it to get a copy of the death cert. Thanks for all your help. I will have to close this thread now.

???

Charles Henry (Cremated Remains) Pearce
Register Type: Burial
Death Date: abt 1975
Burial or Cremation Date: 22 Jan 1975
Burial or Cremation Place: Islington, London, England
URL: https://www.deceasedonline.com...