Genealogy Chat

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DIED. On last, aged 46, Mr. John Cole, gunsmith of Devizes, leaving a wife ami a numerous family.

makes birth about

1789

Thank you Maddie. Actually it does help, thank you, because I have been looking for my original sources of information and haven't been able to find them. I am coming back to this after several years and have moved house in the meantime (I now live only 9 miles from Devizes). I'm sure I've put all my paperwork in a safe place - if I could only find it!

I'm getting a better feeling about John Coles born 1774. He would have been 41 when they married but as he died in 1835 that would have made him 61 at the time (if only he'd lived another 2 years!). Also that John Coles had a brother, Daniel b. 1767. On the 1841 census, the next door premises to Dinah and Thomas Lott was a public house and the landlord was Daniel Cole.

not that it helps much but dinah's residence was southbroom at the time

Dinah
Last name Neate
Birth year -
Residence St James, Southbroom ----------
Marriage year 1815
Marriage date 08 May 1815
Place Southbroom
County Wiltshire
Country England
By licence or by banns B
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Cole
Spouse's residence St James, Southbroom
Witness 1 Charles Neate
Witness 2 Jno Bishop
Record set Wiltshire Marriages Index 1538-1933
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

Stert w is only 2.3 miles from Southbrroom andabout 2 miles from Devizes

Thank you Sylvia. That does explain part of it, but in this case, the bride was not from Stert - she was from Devizes - so they would have paid for two sets of banns.

Banns for a marriage, then as now, had to be read in ALL parishes where the bride and groom are resident ........... that means that if the groom lives in another parish, then the Banns have to be called in that Parish.

If the couple are marrying in a parish where both have only lived for a short period, then the Banns may have to be called in the other 2 parishes of residence.

The Banns had to be paid for ................ so you find that many people give the same address in the Parish Register, and on marriage certificates after July 1 1837. Before that, the Parish Register may simply say "of this parish" for both of them.

That way, they only paid for one set of Banns to be called.

So it is quite possible that he moved to live in the same parish as his future wife, for the required period of residence.

Note that many of them just took a suitcase to an address and left that there, making an occasional appearance .......... they didn't actually live at the address! ;-)

Hello Kath. That is a thought - doesn't religion complicate things!

As far as Dinah's second marriage goes, I believe they were trying to keep the marriage secret. They were married in Beckington, Somerset, some distance away. John Cole's will left his property to two business men in Devizes with the proviso that Dinah, who inherited the business, should be able to live there and carry on the business from there "for as long as she shall remain as my widow". By marrying Thomas Lott she would forfeit this right. They must have been found out - Thomas Lott was declared bankrupt in 1840 and in 1841 - back in business - she was Dinah Lott.

If he was non-conformist, perhaps he didn't want his family to know that he was marrying in a Church of England church, so stayed temporarily in another place so that the banns could be read without his family knowing. Just a thought really.

Dinah's second marriage was by licence rather than banns. This usually means they want to marry quickly without waiting for banns to be read.

Kath. x

Thank you for your kind replies - I appreciate your interest. John Cole did indeed die in 1835 - I have a copy of his will leaving the gun-making business to Dinah. They were married at St James Southbroom and some of their children were baptised there. Julia was the youngest daughter. By the 1841 census Dinah had remarried to another gunmaker, Thomas Ewell Lott (I am also descended from him because his daughter married Dinah's son George). Thomas Lott is the head of household in 1841 and they are at Northgate St. Devizes.

I would be grateful if someone could explain to me about the banns - why would he need to be resident in another place? I would have thought that a great many marriages would have been between couples from the same community so what was the disadvantage in saying so?

IF he was buried asa non conformist maybe he was baptised as one

???????
John
Last name Cole
Birth year 1795
Birth date 06 Jun 1795
Birth place as transcibed Frenchay
Birth county as transcribed Gloucester
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Mother's first name(s) Martha
Meeting place Thornbury
Monthly meeting Frenchay
Quarterly meeting Gloucestershire, Wiltshire
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Archive reference RG6/58
Description GLOUCESTERSHIRE AND WILTSHIRE: Monthly Meeting of Frenchay: Thornbury: Births
Record set England & Wales, Society Of Friends (Quaker) Births 1578-1841
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

Thomas
Last name Cole
Marriage year 1790
Marriage date 22 Sep 1790
Marriage place as transcibed Thornbury
Marriage county as transcribed Glocestershire, Wiltshire
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Cole
Spouse's first name(s) Martha
Spouse's last name Young
Meeting place Gloucestershire, Wiltshire
Monthly meeting -
Quarterly meeting Gloucestershire, Wiltshire

Report a transcription error.
First name(s) Julia
Last name Cole
Birth year 1834
Birth date 25 Mar 1834
Baptism year 1834
Baptism date 31 Aug 1834
Place Devizes
Denomination Independent
Father's first name(s) Jno
Mother's first name(s) Dinah
County Wiltshire
Country England
The National Archives reference TNA/RG/4/2591
Description WILTSHIRE: Devizes, St Mary's Chapel (Independent): Births & Baptisms ----------------------------------

????

Record Transcription:
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Whiteparish, Alderbury, Wiltshire, England

Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
John Cole Male 50 1791 Wiltshire, England
Dinah Cole Female 40 1801 Wiltshire, England
Harriot Cole Female 15 1826 Wiltshire, England

A sojourner is a person who resides temporarily in a place.

for ref
John
Last name Cole
Birth year -
Occupation Sojourner
Residence Southbroom St James
Marriage year 1815
Marriage date 08 May 1815
Place Southbroom
County Wiltshire
Country England
By licence or by banns B
Spouse's first name(s) Dinah
Spouse's last name Neate
Spouse's residence Southbroom St James
Witness 1 Charles Neate
Witness 2 Jno Bishop
Record set Wiltshire Marriages Index 1538-1933


as dinah came from southbroom perhaps he resided in stert for the banns to be called
is this john

John
Last name Cole
Age 40
Birth year 1795
Death year 1835
Death date 03 Mar 1835
Burial year 1835
Burial date 09 Mar 1835
Place Devizes
Denomination Independent --------------
County Wiltshire
Country England
The National Archives reference TNA/RG/4/2591

Can anyone tell me please, under what circumstances might someone be shown as a sojourner in a nearby place rather than a resident in a place of marriage?

If I can explain: one of my long term brick walls is my 3 x great grandfather, John Cole. He married Dinah Neate in Southbroom Devizes in 1815. I have a copy of the Parish Record entry and it shows him as a sojourner in Stert - a small village just outside Devizes. A CD of baptisms shows no Coles in Stert so I have always assumed that he was from somewhere else and was merely staying in Stert. There are several John Coles from other towns/villages in Wiltshire but I have nothing to be able to identify any of them as a possible. Some years ago GR members tried hard to help me with this.

Coming back to it now and looking with fresh eyes, I have found a John Coles (Cole and Coles have been used for the same family) born in Devizes in 1774. This is one I have not come across before, but if he was from Devizes to start with, why, if it was him, might he have been shown as staying in Stert? My John Cole had a business in Devizes so I can't think it would have been convenient to live in Stert.

Am I barking up yet another wrong tree?