Genealogy Chat

Another one for elimination:


John G Bates
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: John G Bates
Death Age: 62
Birth Date: abt 1871
Registration Date: Sep 1933
Registration district: Chester le Street
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 466



BATES, JOHN GEORGE mms REAY
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in HEXHAM Volume 10B Page 259


Ann Magdalene Reay
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Ann Magdalene Reay
Registration Year: 1859
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Easington
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 407
Records on Page:
Name
John Bates
Ann Magdalene Reay



John George Bates
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John George Bates
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: John Bates
Mother: Ann Magdalene Bates
Gender: Male
Where born: Stanesley, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Willington
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 30 Railway Terrace
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Durham
ED, institution, or vessel: 47
Neighbors:
Piece: 4959
Folio: 42
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
John Bates 55
Ann Magdalene Bates 42
Francis Bates 14
Thomas Bates 13
John George Bates 10
Sarah Bates 6



John G Bates
in the 1891 England Census
Name: John G Bates
Gender: Male
Age: 20
Relationship: Son
Birth Year: 1871
Father: John Bates
Mother: Ann M Bates
Birth Place: W Wylam, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Pelton
Residence Place: Pelton, Pelton, Durham, England
Sub registration district: Chester le Street
ED, Institution or Vessel: 20
Neighbors:
Piece: 4122
Folio: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
John Bates 65
Ann M Bates 52
Thomas Bates 23
John G Bates 20
Sarah Bates 16
Robert Bates 7
Paul Montague 30


John G Bates
in the 1901 England Census
Name: John G Bates
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Jane A Bates
Birth Place: West Wylam, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Pelton
Ecclesiastical parish: Pelton
Town: Pelton
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Chester Le Street
Sub-registration district: Chester le Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors:
Piece: 4700
Folio: 31
Page Number: 11
Household schedule number: 73
Household Members:
Name Age
John G Bates 30
Jane A Bates 31
John M Bates 5
Mary M Bates 7
Jane H Bates 3

Ancestry suggests (for whatever that's worth) that this is the Matthew who died 1921;

Matthew Bates
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Matthew Bates
Age in 1911: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Barlow, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Edmondsley
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 28 Pleasant St Edmondsley Durham
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Miner
Registration district: Chester le Street
Registration District Number: 554
Sub-registration district: Chester le Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Piece: 30110
Household Members:
Name Age
Matthew Bates 47
Elizabeth Bates 45
Thomas B Bates 15
Epraine Bates 13
Ernest Bates 12


However, if that's correct, he's also married.

This is probably the birth of that Matthew:

BATES, MATTHEW mms BRIDGEWOOD
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 663

Patrents' marriage:

Thomas Bates
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Thomas Bates
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 15 Nov 1849
Marriage Place: All Saints, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Father: Matthew Bates
Spouse: Ann Bridgewood
FHL Film Number: 1068969
Reference ID: 2:3BZGB0F



Matthew Bates
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Matthew Bates
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's name: Thomas Bates
Mother's name: Ann Bates
Gender: Male
Where born: Winlaton, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Winlaton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Barlow
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Gateshead
Sub-registration district: Winlaton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 44
Piece: 5066
Folio: 8
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Bates 43
Ann Bates 41 - All Saints, Newcastle
Jane Ann Bates 20
John Thomas Bates 11
Matthew Bates 7
George Bates 2

And there was I thinking I'd perhaps found the right one, as they were both called Matthew. :-(

So the one born in 1863 in Durham doesn't match the one who died in 1921, but the latter could still be right. Just need to find his birth!

No, another theory bites the dust, Andysmum !

A sister of that Matthew:

BATES, ELIZABETH CATHERINE mms TODD
GRO Reference: 1865 D Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 306

Therefore the family in 1871:


Matthew Bates
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Matthew Bates
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's name: Matthew Bates
Mother's name: Elizabeth Bates
Gender: Male
Where born: Willington, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Morley
Ecclesiastical parish: Morley
Town: Morley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Dewsbury
Sub-registration district: Morley
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 170
Piece: 4578
Folio: 42
Page Number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
Matthew Bates 48
Elizabeth Bates 41
John William Bates 15
Nicholas Wood Bates 9
Matthew Bates 7
Elizabeth Catherine Bates 5


So this is him in 1901:

Matthew Bates
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Matthew Bates
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Kate Bates
Mother: Elizabeth Bates
Birth Place: Wellington, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Elswick
Ecclesiastical parish: St Augustine
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Sub-registration district: Westgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 50
Neighbors:
Piece: 4774
Folio: 24
Page Number: 40
Household schedule number: 246
Household Members:
Name Age
Matthew Bates 37
Kate Bates 34
Gladys Bates 4
Norman Bates 2
Ida Bates 2/12
Elizabeth Bates 71


And still alive in 1939:

Matthew Bates
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Matthew Bates
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 31 Aug 1863
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 15
Residence Place: Wallsend, Northumberland, England
Occupation: Retired General Dealer
Schedule Number: 223
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: GCSR
Registration district: 560/1
Inferred Spouse: Kate Bates
Household Members:
Name
Matthew Bates
Kate Bates

BATES, MATTHEW mms TODD
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 277

In 1901 I can only see two Matthew Bates born 1863 +/- 1 in Co Durham.
Both are married.

How's about this one?

Matthew Bates, died Sept Qtr, 1921, aged 57, in Chester-le-Street.

There's a matching birth, Sept Qtr, 1863, in Durham.

Hi all thanks again for replying with info, all the data on Jane Florence is spot on and info re Mathew also , the Origen of the name Corin is unclear but I do remember my father saying when his father was registered that the registra Miss spelt Colin !! I was very young but think that was what he said so maybe the name was just a mistake.

Re Talla Bates as he was much older then Jane I would guess he would have been born around 1875 at the latest as this was the reason Jane was not allowed to marry him as she was 16/17 years old. And as Mathew knew of his real dad and was left what possessions Talla had on his death I would guess he died around say 1920 to 1930 .

Regards to all

Thomas

As your grandfathers birth was registered as Matthew Corin Ferry, do you know where the name Corin came from?

Births Jun 1902 (>99%)
FERRY Matthew Corin Lanchester 10a 402

How about this man, living in the same area in 1901:


John William Bates
in the 1901 England Census
Name: John William Bates
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: George Bates
Mother: Rebecca Bates
Birth Place: Waterhouses, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Kimblesworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Witton Gilbert with Kimblesworth St Michael
Town: Kimblesworth
County/Island: Durham
Country: EnglandStreet address:
Registration district: Durham
Sub-registration district: St Oswald
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors:
Piece: 4676
Folio: 132
Page Number: 37
Household schedule number: 197
Household Members:
Name Age
George Bates 38
Rebecca Bates 37
John William Bates 15
Margaret Bates 12
Thomas Whitfield Bates 9
Edith Annie Bates 1
Mary Ethel Bates 2/12

Address: 2 Wood [ Hood ?? ] Street.


John William Bates
in the 1911 England Census
Name: John William Bates
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Waterhouses, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Kimblesworth
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 8 William St Kimblesworth
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Durham
Registration District Number: 551
Sub-registration district: Brandon
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Piece: 29956
Household Members:
Name Age
George Bates 49
Rebecca Sarah Bates 48
John William Bates 25
Thomas Whitfield Bates 19
Margaret Hutchinson 22
Edith Annie Bates 11
Mary Ethel Bates 10
Elsie Bates 4
Rosina Willinson 9
George Hutchinson 1
John Thomas Bates Hutchinson 3/12


In 1939 he's still single, and living in Chester-Le-Street:

John W Bates
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: John W Bates
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 8 Oct 1885
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: Chester-le-Street, Durham, England
Occupation: Colliery Stoneman, below
Schedule Number: 90
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: FHCS
Registration district: 554-2
Household Members:
Name
Ann Cain
Thomas W Marwood
John W Bates



But you thought Talla maybe died about 1925.

EDIT:

No, forget John William - he's not older than Jane.

For our reference - though I don't know what help it can be! - Jane in 1901 -

Jace F Ferry
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Jace F Ferry
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Edward Ferry
Mother: Catherine Ferry
Birth Place: West Moor, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Kimblesworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Witton Gilbert with Kimblesworth St Michael
Town: Kimblesworth
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Durham
Sub-registration district: St Oswald
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors:
Piece: 4676
Folio: 116
Page Number: 6
Household schedule number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Ferry 44
Catherine Ferry 41
Edward Ferry 18
Jace F Ferry 16 [ Jane on image ]
Thos A Ferry 11
Sarah E Ferry 9
Catherine H Ferry 8
William S Ferry 6
Pretniah Ferry 7/12
James Shields 51

Address: 16 John Street

Hi all thanks for replies
Re Talla ?? Bates i only know he was quite a bit older then Jane Florence Ferry 1884 My grand father Mathew Corin was born 1902 and Jane them wed George Morton 1881 in 1903 but he was recently widowed and no children as far as i know at that point but they did go on to have 3 together

i can only guess as i said before the date of Tallas death and only know that he was living close to Chester le street area hope this bit of info helps but if any one needs anything specific please ask
Many thanks

Thomas

If in Durham, then only these:

Deaths Mar 1926
Bates Joseph 69 Durham 10a 474 (born about 1856)
Deaths Mar 1928
Bates James 73 Durham 10a 450 (born about 1854)

so too old?

Are we looking for a death for Mr Bates from 1922 to 1928 in Durham itself,or in County Durham, do you think?

Talla may, of course, just be a nickname, without any relation to the man's real name.

What was your great-grandmother's name, please?

And your grandfather's name.

Hi all
Talla is the name i have been given through previous contact re my Great grandmother and the Father of my Grandfather
My grandfather was brought up as his mums brother as she was only 17 when she had him out of wedlock and she and Talla were never allowed to continue there relationship as he was much older, he never married and died a bachelor

My great gran was born 1885/86 so can only guess when Talla was born [1872 ish ] in durham there are no records of him on any census records i can fined as i dont even know if Talla Bates was his real name or a nick name given to him or even shortened etc

i know that my grandfather did know of him and on Tallas death he received what belongings he had and would guess he died around 1925 but not sure

I have no close relations left alive i can ask about this so if anyone can help with my problem it would be fantastic

Many thanks

Les

If you give full details, we will be more easily able to check

Welcome to genes reunited, Les.

Where did you see the name, so we can also look in case we can suggest some alternate spelling?

says its a girls name

https://www.babynamespedia.com/meaning/Talla

Hi all wondering if any one might know the real name of someone if they were known as Talla it is a mans name around 1870s and in the Durham area
much appreciated

Les