Genealogy Chat

(well for info. above Marriage, John Cooper (Surrey Marriages, Ancestry) was Kate White, 1881 Census Croydon.

Chris :)

(below was a Daughter)

Births Mar 1879 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
Cooper Louisa Elizabeth Croydon 2a 221

RE
"John Cooper=Elizabeth Wilson (1875 Kingston).
Obviously the year has to match but should the Vol and the Page also match plea"

Basically everything has to match - e.g.,

Marriages Mar 1875 (>99%)
COOPER John Kingston 2a 404

says John's m.cert can be found on p404 in vol 2a of the 1875q1 set.

If he wed Elizabeth Wilson, then she must appear on the same entry as John, and we know his cert is on p404 in vol 2a of the 1875q1 set.
.
However, this is not necessarily sufficient to say they wed, since there are two entries on that page (4 entries pre-1852), and we actually need them on the same entry, not merely the same page,

On the FreeBMD hit I posted above, I can click on the page number to see all the names on a page (this works for Bs and Ds too), so here I get:

Marriages Mar 1875 (>99%)
COOPER John Kingston 2a 404
Foquett Emily Owen Kingston 2a 404
SUTTON Martin John Kingston 2a 404
White Kate Kingston 2a 404

and there's nothing here to say who wed whom.

Bit odd also!, when Charles Married Lottie 1908, his Father, John Cooper occ. Gardener...


But when Charlotte Eliza Cooper Marries William Godfrey 1904 Lambeth, and Susannah Julia Cooper Marries Charles Grimwood 1891 Lambeth, both say Father, John Cooper occ. Painter (Deceased)...

There is a John Cooper Death 1887 (37) if him...

Chris :)

(something just not adding up, methinks, lol)


Edits (and below was Mother!)

Marriages Mar 1905 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Cooper Charlotte Eliza Lambeth 1d 342a
LLOYD Henry Lambeth 1d 342a


(1911, 21 Malmsey Place Kennington S E, Lambeth, London & Surrey, near Daughter Charlotte Godfrey)

On that Birth Cert. you have, does it match with below?...

Chris :)

1939 Register (Find My Past)

4 Vicarage Road , Twickenham M.B., Middlesex,
Charles H Cooper 25 May 1879 Male Public Work Contractor Labourer (Heavy Worker) Married
Lottie H Cooper 14 Sep 1878 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Lillian L Dudman (Cooper) 22 Sep 1911 Female Daily Housemaid Single



1911 (Find My Past)
Charles Henry Cooper Head Married Male 32 1879 Surbiton Surrey Odd Man Domestic
Lottie Harriet Cooper Wife Married Female 33 1878 Teddington Middlesex
Stables Oakfield Somerset Road, Wimbledon, Surrey

Hi yes Chris, the Teddington and Wimbledon link is correct there is a family grave in the Teddington graveyard thanks.
Yes Nyx thank you for suggestion as to going to next census to see who is still with who have had a lot of activity.
Thank you all for your help Will.

WILSON, CHARLOTTE ELIZA SIMPSON Order
GRO Reference: 1854 S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 200

Possible


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
3, Elizabeth Place, St Margarets, Westminster, London & Middlesex, England

James Wilson Head Married Male 32 1829 Carman Newington, Middlesex, England
Eliza Wilson Wife Married Female 30 1831 - Pimlico, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Wilson Daughter Unmarried Female 12 1849 - Pimlico, Middlesex, England
Charlotte Wilson Daughter Unmarried Female 6 1855 - Pimlico, Middlesex, England

Notes on Marriage to Lottie, 1908, his occ. Lance Corporal R.M.L.I. on H.M.S. Saphire of St. Dunstan's Stepney. His Father, John Cooper occ. Gardener. Wits. John Cooper, Ann Greenfield.

(1908 Marriage (reference, Ancestry, London) Richmond upon Thames St Mary, Teddington


Banns of Marriage...

22 Nov. 29 Nov. 6 Dec 1908 St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney

(Charles Henry Cooper, Bachelor, 29, on the High Seas.
Lottie Harriett Greenfield, Spinster, 30, S. Alban's, Teddington.)


http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7768366

(did see above, if Date wrong!, looking on Show image, seems to say Surbiton)

Chris :)


(your reference posted earlier)

British Army Service Records 1760-1915

(6585, Charles Henry Cooper, age 18yrs. 4mths. Dated November 1896. Residence, 82, New Cut, Lambeth)


1911 (Find My Past)
Charles Henry Cooper Head Married Male 32 1879 Surbiton Surrey Odd Man Domestic
Lottie Harriet Cooper Wife Married Female 33 1878 Teddington Middlesex
Stables Oakfield Somerset Road, Wimbledon, Surrey


1939 Register (Find My Past)

4 Vicarage Road , Twickenham M.B., Middlesex,
Charles H Cooper 25 May 1879 Male Public Work Contractor Labourer (Heavy Worker) Married
Lottie H Cooper 14 Sep 1878 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Lillian L Dudman (Cooper) 22 Sep 1911 Female Daily Housemaid Single


Birth
GREENFIELD, LOTTY HARRIET (ENNEFER)
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 321


Marriages Jun 1875 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
ENEFER Ann Kingston 2a 436
GREENFIELD Benjamin Kingston 2a 436

(he was Deceased, on 1908 Marriage)


But??...(below Baptism for Son of John/Charlotte Eliza Cooper)

Charles Henry Cooper
10 Mar 1878 Lambeth St Mary Lambeth
John (occ. Painter)
Charlotte Eliza

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4, Little Penton Place, Newington, St Saviour Southwark, London & Surrey, England
Learn more


John Cooper Head Married Male 33 1848 Southwark, Surrey, England Painter General Transcription
Charlotte Cooper Wife Married Female 27 1854 Pimlico, Middlesex, England -
John Cooper Son Single Male 8 1873 Southwark, Surrey, England Scholar
Susannah Cooper Daughter Single Female 6 1875 Westminster, Middlesex, England Scholar
Charles Cooper Son Single Male 3 1878 Lambeth, Surrey, England Scholar
Charlotte Cooper Daughter Single Female 1 1880 Lambeth, Surrey, England -
Lizzie Cooper Daughter Single Female 0 1881 Lambeth, Surrey, England -

COOPER, CHARLOTTE ELIZA WILSON Order
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 397

COOPER, JOHN JAMES WILSON Order
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 56

As below...

Chris :)

All London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1931 (Ancestry)

30 Oct 1870 St Mary, Lambeth
John Cooper (Bachelor, Full Age, occ. Bricklayer. Father, John Benjamin Cooper occ. Bricklayer)
Charlotte Eliza Wilson (Minor, Spinster. Father, James Wilson occ. Labourer)
(witnesses, James Wilson, Ed. Powell. Residence for both, Wootton Street)

This is that same marriage on freebmd

Marriages Dec 1870 (>99%)
COOPER John Lambeth 1d 589 <<<<<<
COSTELOW Margaret Lambeth 1d 589
MALONEY Edward Lambeth 1d 589
Wilson Charlotte Eliza Lambeth 1d 589 <<<<<<

You can work out who married who ( usually) by finding the next census . in this case the 1881, where Margaret is with Edward, and her oldest child is reg as Maloney/Costello on GRO index.

Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
COOPER, CHARLES HENRY WILSON Order
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 394

England & Wales marriages 1837-2005 Transcription

First name(s) CHARLOTTE ELIZA
Last name WILSON
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1870
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ CHARLOTTE ELIZA WILSON married one of these people
John Cooper, <<<<<<<<<<Edward Maloney
District Lambeth
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Volume as transcribed 1D
Page number 589
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Great Britain, England

Nyx: Yes my gfather mothers side was Charles Henry Cooper b 1878 d 1946 Army No 6585 Lambeth (marriage 1908 to Lottie Harriet greenfield b 1878 d 1958).

Ive got the cert from Charles Henry's birth his Mother was Charlotte Eliza Wilson married John Cooper Vol 2a Pg 404 but have had that request refunded by GRO

Regards and thanks x

Below are details from 1874 Cambridge Marriage...

Chris :)

Cambridgeshire Marriages Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) ELIZABETH
Last name FARLEY
Marriage year 1874
Marriage day 8
Marriage month Aug
Spouse's first name(s) JOHN
Spouse's last name COOPER
Place CAMBRIDGE, ST ANDREW THE LESS
Groom's first name(s) John
Groom's last name COOPER
Groom's marital status bac
Groom's occupation teacher
Groom's residence of New Malden, Coomb, Surrey
Groom's father's first name(s) James
Groom's father's occupation farmer
Bride's first name(s) Elizabeth
Bride's last name FARLEY
Bride's marital status sp
Bride's residence of Fitzroy Street
Bride's father's first name(s) Edwin
Bride's father's occupation ironfounder
By licence or banns by banns

Scotland Andy crumbs!

How did you work back to John Cooper please? if via one of his children we can take a look as Andy has done on GRO birth index to confirm mother's maiden name.

Not sure what site you're using? but the above marriages are from freebmd.org.uk, very simple to use, and free :-)

Most of the entries will show a number of marriages on the same vol and page, maybe two or three couples, working out who is whose spouse is sometimes down to looking at the next census, or the birth of children.

Hi Andy thanks for that Ill look into that its a lot more information for me to tie up for a min ill digest thank you. WD.

Salutations and thanks for your reply Nyx!

Not sure I know where you are getting those from at all?

I can find John Cooper Kingston Surrey 1875 Vol 2a pg 404 line 321 I sent away for his marriage to Charlotte Wilson Vol 2a Pg 404 but got refunded.

Why does all the names you ref above have the same ref numbers Im confused?

Should the ref number re Vol and Page be identical for the Bride as the groom when we look up each seperately please?

Many thanks WD.

Is this correct family??

1881 England Census


Name: John Cooper
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Elizabeth Cooper
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Kingston on Thames
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: Malden House School
Marital Status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Schoolmaster
Registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 833
Folio: 6
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
>>>John Cooper 39
>>>>Elizabeth Cooper 30
Mary E. Cooper 5
George Cooper 33
Ralph F. Stone 16
Percy Shelley 10
Arthur W. Mills 10
William Morgan 8
E.M. Morgan 7
Alice Street 22
Maria Jones 19


If so

Birth of daughter

COOPER, MARY ELIZABETH FARLEY Order
GRO Reference: 1875 J Quarter in KINGSTON Volume 02A Page 296

and marriage for John and Elizabeth

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1874 (>99%)
Cooper John Cambridge 3b 784
Farley Elizabeth Cambridge 3b 784


Andy