Genealogy Chat

Well it looks to riding on that 1881 Birth (no pressure then!) lol...

Chris :)

(perhaps the 'usual' we have seen before, when signing up, to appear older!)

:-D

(think below is Mrs. Smith! (his Sister) at Walton Road 1896)

Marriages Sep 1894 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Cooper Ellen Elizabeth Kingston 2a 690
Smith George Arthur Kingston 2a 690

Chris :)

Edits (could be her below, Baptism says Born 9 Sep 1873)

Birth
COOPER, ELLEN ELIZABETH (ANDREWS)
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 655


(Below siblings from 1881 posted earlier, 51, Alpha Road)

Birth
COOPER, WILLIAM JOHN (ANDREWS)
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 294

(Baptism for Willam John 1876, says Born June 17)


Birth
COOPER, EDWARD ALBERT (ANDREWS)
GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 285


Birth
COOPER, REBECCA GERTRUDE (ANDREWS)
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 581


Birth
COOPER, SARAH ANN (ANDREWS)
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 631


1911 (Find My Past)
Ellen E Smith Head Widow Female 37 1874 Rochampton Surrey
Emily L Smith Daughter Single Female 16 1895 South Teddington Middlesex Daily Domistic
George A Smith Son Single Male 14 1897 South Teddington Middlesex Errand Boy
Sidney H Smith Son - Male 10 1901 South Teddington Middlesex School
William C Smith Son - Male 8 1903 South Teddington Middlesex School
Henry J Smith Son - Male 4 1907 East Molesey Surrey -
Frederick E Smith Son - Male 0 1911 West Molesey Surrey -
Ernest J Hunt Boarder Single Male 24 1887 West Molesey Surrey Farm Labourer
324 Walton Road West Molesey, West Molesey, Surrey
(says Marriage lasted 17yrs, 8 children born, 7 living, 1 died)


Deaths Mar 1909 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
SMITH George Arthur 35 Kingston 2a 340


(her birthplace wrong on below, not sure on this one!, but address looks good)

1901
Arthur Smith Head Married Male 31 1870 Newbury, Berkshire, England Bricklayers Labourer
Ellen Smith Wife Married Female 30 1871 Farnborough, Hampshire, England -
Willie Smith Son - Male 7 1894 Surrey, England -
Nellie Smith Daughter - Female 5 1896 Surrey, England -
Arthur Smith Son - Male 3 1898 Surrey, England -
Edith Smith Daughter - Female 1 1900 Surrey, England
St Marys Cottage, 4, School Road, East Molesey, Kingston, Surrey


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roehampton

(Roehampton is a suburban[2] district in southwest London, forming the western end of the London Borough of Wandsworth)


Surrey, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1912 (Ancestry)

Robert Henry John Smith
7 Apr 1907 East Molesey, St Mary
George Arthur (occ. Gardener)
Ellen Elizabeth

Or rather we do, because it's the Cooper /Andrews birth as the addresses match and he just altered his age to sign up? Have I got that right lolol

So we know it's him, but we don't know what his actual birthdate is?

(jolly good Rose, lol, and Ann Greenfield was a witness at Charles/Lottie1908 Marriage)

Chris :)

For ref

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Boot Makers Shop, Gomer Road, Teddington, Kingston, Middlesex, England

Benjamin Greenfield Head Married Male 41 1850 Surrey, England Boot & Shoe Maker
Ann Greenfield Wife Married Female 42 1849 Danbury, Essex, England -
Lottie Greenfield Daughter - Female 12 1879 Middlesex, England Scholar
Lillie Greenfield Daughter - Female 7 1884 Middlesex, England Scholar
Ernest Greenfield Son - Male 4 1887 Middlesex, England Scholar

25 Watts Lane, family of inlaws? EDIT Ernest is Lottie's brother.

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
25 Watts Lane Teddington, Teddington, Middlesex, England

Ernest Greenfield Head Married Male 24 1887 Teddington Middlesex Boot Repairer / Worker Transcription
Clara Greenfield Wife Married Female 27 1884 Little Baddow Essex - Transcription
Ann Greenfield Mother Widow Female 62 1849 Danbury Essex - Transcription
Edward Tucher Boarder - Male 12 1899 Putney Scholar

Oh well done!, well would say that is Alpha Road (he is there 1896 Surrey Electoral, Ancestry) and 1881 posted above here 51 Alpha...

1925 John/Harriet 20, Walton Road.


Mrs Smith...(could be East Merton), who is she I wonder?...

Chris :)

Below was found so far...


First name(s) HENRY CHARLES
Last name COOPER
Birth year 1881
Birth quarter 2
Mother's last name Andrews
District Kingston
County Surrey
Volume 2A Page 323


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Palace Road, Molesey, East Molesey, Kingston, Surrey, England

John Cooper Head Married Male 52 1849 Norfolk, England Gardener
Harriet Cooper Wife Married Female 41 1860 Flitwick, Bedfordshire, England
---------------------------------

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
12 Walton Road East Molesey, East Molesey, Surrey, England

John Cooper Head Married Male 62 1849 Westacre Norfolk Gardener Nurseryman
Harriett Cooper Wife Married Female 51 1860 Flitwick Bedfordshire House Wife
Maggie Cooper Daughter - Female 13 1898 Morden Surrey School

(other Census for him also posted, with first wife Sarah)

Chris :)

(yes, not the one from China Walk, Mother Maiden Name Wilson)

Eliza Wilson China Walk is wrong your saying???

Ive got the pdf of Charles Henry Cooper Reg no 8939, 25 Watts Lane Teddington
DOB 24th (I think) March 1879, Surbiton Surrey, occ. groom, CofE.
enlisted (think its) 8th april 1898, London.
Division Chatham.
Next bit has been scribbled over:
Next of kin: Father John, 64 Ailsa Road Surbiton.(thats been scribbled over then)
mrs Smith 1 Walton Villas School Road East Melbrr?
Complexion Fresh, Hair Brown, Eyes Grey, Tattoo left arm.

Have I get the relavant stuff? Very interesting!

So the China Walk Mother is the wrong one is that correct please?

Regards and thanks x Will

(no Will, only one, that Married Lottie, lol, forget the one from China Walk, Lambeth)

Chris :)

Ok Ill see if I can have a look. thanks

Oh dear its two people?

And below was that Baptism...

Charles Henry Cooper
10 Mar 1878 Lambeth St Mary Lambeth
John (occ. Painter)
Charlotte Eliza
(Abode, 4 China Walk)


Things not as bad as they look Will, lol, as you can see from that Marriage Cert. you have, Charles was in R.M.L.I.

Below could be him, but it needs to downloaded £3.50 to see details...(names, address etc.)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7768366

Chris :)

(we have 'been round the houses' a bit, but are stuck at this point!)...

Will the main problem is, that as you know this to be correct, the date of birth for Charles on 1939 is 25th may 1879

1939 Register (Find My Past)

4 Vicarage Road , Twickenham M.B., Middlesex,
Charles H Cooper 25 May 1879 Male Public Work Contractor Labourer (Heavy Worker) Married
Lottie H Cooper 14 Sep 1878 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Lillian L Dudman (Cooper) 22 Sep 1911 Female Daily Housemaid Single



The birth cert you have giving birth as Charles Henry b 29th Jan 1878, does not match.

While it's not unusual for the date of birth on 1939 register to be out by a year or the day, to be out on all counts suggests it's not the same person you have the birth cert for??

edit also the occupation of father is very different on birth and marriage

"My Grandfathers details are:
Birth cert (I have in front of me) Charles Henry b 29th Jan 1878, 4 China Walk Lambeth. Father John Cooper occ Baker. Mother Charlotte Eliza Cooper formally Wilson 4 China Walk.

His Marriage cert in front of me:
Groom: 26th December 1908. (Yes Boxing day)! Charles Henry Cooper age 30, batchelour, Lance corp of St Durstan Stepney. Fathers name: John Cooper Gardener."

Oh dear my sincere apologies I seem to have caused so much trouble I do apologise!
I have to admit Im out of my depth here and finding all this information rather difficult to take in so I need to simplify for my own sanity!
My initial question I think was am I to expect the same reference numbers from the microfiche on the grooms and on the brides when I look at them! From the response Im getting from you the answer to that is yes!?
My target is my grandfathers father!
My Grandfathers details are:
Birth cert (I have in front of me) Charles Henry b 29th Jan 1878, 4 China Walk Lambeth. Father John Cooper occ Baker. Mother Charlotte Eliza Cooper formally Wilson 4 China Walk.
His Marriage cert in front of me:
Groom: 26th December 1908. (Yes Boxing day)! Charles Henry Cooper age 30, batchelour, Lance corp of St Durstan Stepney. Fathers name: John Cooper Gardener.
Bride: 26th December 1908. Lottie Harriet Greenfield age 30, Spinster, 24 Watts Lane! Father Benjamin Greenfield (deceased). Bootmaker.
His death cert in front of me:
10th May Memorial Hospital Teddington Twickenham. Charles Henry Cooper 64yrs. 4a Vicarage Road Teddington Twickenham UD. Engineers asst. Ministry of works. Informant: Daughter, Lillian Lottie Dudman (My Mother).
His wife my Grandmother birth cert:
14th September 1878, Lottie Harriet, Father Benjamin John Greenfield, Mother Annie Greenfield Formally Ennefer. Fathers occ Bootmaker master, Informant B. Greenfield, father, High Street Teddington.
My Grandmothers Death cert 24th December 1958, Banstead House Byfleet Road Walton. Lottie Harriett Cooper, 80 yrs, Widow of Charles Henry Cooper, gen Builder Labourer. Informant Daughter (my Mother )Lillian Lottie Dudman .
I have to say I do find it strange that Charles Henry Cooper was at Teddington and Lambeth?
I do appreciate your efforts and information you are giving me but be gentle there is a lot of information above that I am finding difficult to comprehend. However I do thank you all sincerely for your efforts and time thank you. X Will Dudman.

That Royal Marine record does seem to suggest that Charles Henry was aboard HMS Sapphire 1907- 1908 (as recorded on his marriage certificate). So I think that (despite the dob discrepancy) the record might be the key Chris :)

Name: Rebecca Andrews
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bigg, Lincolnshire, England
Civil Parish: Marham
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Registration district: Downham
Sub-registration district: Wiggenhall
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 133
Piece: 1830
Folio: 700
Page Number: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
Rebecca Andrews 48
Catherine Andrews 14
Simpson Andrews 18
John Andrews 9
Sarah Andrews 5
William Andrews 3
Susannah Andrews 1



Name: Rebecca Andrews
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: 1803
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Andrews
Gender: Female
Where born: Brigg, Lincolnshire, England
Civil Parish: Kings Lynn St Margaret
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Kings Lynn
Sub-registration district: Kings Lynn North
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 164
Piece: 1255
Folio: 18
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
John Andrews 67
Rebecca Andrews 58
William Andrews 13
Susanna Andrews 11

Name: Sarah Andrews Or Anderson
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 14 Sep 1845
Baptism Place: Marham, Norfolk, England
Father: John Andrews Or Anderson
Mother: Rebecca
FHL Film Number: 1526654

1871

Name: John Cooper
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Cooper
Gender: Male
Where born: West Acre, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: Putney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Putney
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 53
Piece: 717
Folio: 91
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
John Cooper 25
Sarah Cooper 24
Rebecca Cooper 7 Months