Genealogy Chat

On the census my GGF husband of Rosanna Father of a daughter of the same name
was listed as being a general labourer and illiterate

Quite humbling.

In addition to this threads title I wish to add some information on my paternal GF's,
Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland.

This may help with dates:Census Years1901AntrimDuncairn WardOsborne StreetResidents of a house
Residents of a house 7 in Osborne Street (Duncairn Ward, Antrim)
Irvine Francis 65 Male Head of Family Methodist Ballyclare, Co Antr Labourer
Irvine Rosanna 55 Female Wife Methodist Ballyclare, Co Antr
Irvine Rosanna 20 Female DaughterMethodist Ballyclare, Co Antr Pinafore Sticher

Census Years1911AntrimDuncairnOsborne StResidents of a house
Residents of a house 33 in Osborne St (Duncairn, Antrim)
Irvine Francis 72 Male Head of Family MethodistCo Antrim General Labourer
Irvine Rosanna 67 Female Wife Methodist Co Antrim

Census Years1911AntrimDuncairnOsborne StResidents of a house
Residents of a house 2 in Osborne St (Duncairn, Antrim)
Irvine Samuel 36 Male Head of Family Methodist Co Antrim Labourer Dock
Irvine Sarah Margaret 26 Female Wife Church of Ireland Co Antrim
Irvine Samuel G 3 Male Son Methodist Co Antrim
Samuel died March 1940 Purdeysburn Hospital Belfast

The Father of Francis Irvine was Francis Ervine baptised 4/5/1869

My GF & GM Samuel & Sarah are buried in the same grave
S1 468 Glenalena ext

Heard today from a relative in a shop that Brian Gustard, son of Ethel has died.
He used to be a plumber in the ship yards, but I hadn't of him in a while RIP

Yes, Ginny was my GF's sister. Her Father John is my GGF. His Father Joseph is my GGGF also my brick wall.

5 Shield Street was next to the park opposite Christ Church.

PS Thank you

Ahhh- so if she married in 1914, that Jane/ Jenny wasn't a child of Janet or Thomas, but a possible sister of Thomas.

The 1914 marriage certificate is in a tree on Ancestry.

Marriage: 24th June 1914, Parish Church Newcastle upon Tyne

Jane Atkinson, spinster, age 26
Address 9 Lune? Street
Father: John Atkinson (deceased), steamboat man

Joseph Graham, bachelor, carrier, age 26
Address: Sou?burn Road
Father: John Graham (retired)

Witnesses: G Graham & K Atkinson
--------------------------

I think this is likely them in 1939:

Household (7 People) 5 Shield Street , Newcastle-upon-Tyne C.B., Northumberland, England

Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Henry Graham 11 Jun 1920 Male Rivetters Labourer Shipyard Heavy Worker Single
Joseph jnr Graham 09 Jun 1917 Male General Labourer Heavy Work Single
John Graham 16 Jun 1915 Male General Labourer Heavy Work Single
Joseph Graham 04 Sep 1885 Male General Labourer Cartman Married
Lily Graham 11 Oct 1926 Female At School Single
Jane Graham 03 Aug 1888 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
-----------------------------------

However, looking at the newspaper cuttings (1944 & 1945) there was also another Jane/ Jennie/ Jenny (with partner Joseph) that was the child of Janet.

Marriages Jun 1914 (>99%)
Atkinson Jane Graham Newcastle T. 10b 126
Graham Joseph Atkinson Newcastle T 10b 126

Births Dec 1928 (>99%)
Graham Lily Atkinson Newcastle T. 10b 178

Lily Graham married Charles Hardy 1956

No I don't know Ginny's partners name. But her daughter was Lily Graham, married Charles Hardy

I don't see twins (although if stillborn they will not be registered). There is the birth and death of this child:

Births Mar 1943
Wharton Alan (Mother's maiden name: Walker) Newcastle T. 10b 153

Deaths Jun 1943
WHARTON Alan 0 Newcastle T. 10b 114
----------------------------------

Do you know the surname of Jennie's partner/ Husband Joseph?

Aunt May and uncle John Wharton also had a daughter, Jennifer, and twins
that I was told were still-born or died in infancy.

This is the possible death and burial of Thomas Atkinson's wife, Margaret (daughters Mary Alice & Margaret were baptised at St Domonic's):

Death:
ATKINSON, MARGARET age: 38
GRO Reference: 1918 J Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 137

Burial:
Margaret Atkinson
Burial date 06 May 1918
Burial place St. Dominic, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England

Just trying to put the births in some sort of order- there might be others.

Jane/ Jennie/ Janet- born c1901 (with Janet on 1911 census)- married Joseph ?

Ethel Stewart Dodd b1903- married 1924 John Gustard (Partner was Martin Hawkins)

Ellen Walker- 1909- married 1928 Joseph Saints

John Stewart Walker 1910- (Possible death 1912?)

Mary Stewart Walker 1912- married 1930 Frank Wylie

Frederick John Stewart Walker 1914

Richard Stewart Walker 1916 (died 1916)

Margaret May Walker 1920- married 1939 John Wharton

George Dodd/ Atkinson 1923

Ralph Dodd (Atkinson) 1925- Killed in action Feb 1945

Ella D Atkinson 1929
-----------------------

John Atkinson 1906
Mary Alice Atkinson 1907 (died 1912)
Margaret Atkinson 1909
Thomas Atkinson 1912
Henry Atkinson 1914
Joseph Atkinson 1916
-----------------------------------

Will come back to this later

Once in conversation with my cousin Mary years ago I said Thomas Atkinson fathered 13 children, 7 sons and 6 daughters (my Mother was the youngest)
She replied TA fathered X number of children in wedlock and Y number of children out of wedlock. Didn't understand her at the time, but it seems to be unravelling that way ?

Incidentally uncle Ralph was escorting Russian convoys when he perished.

I was baptised in Christ Church Shieldfield November 1945. It had a school attached where my Mother was educated.

Uncle Ralph was killed in action serving as stoker on Corvette Bluebelle, torpedoed, very shortly after his Mother, my GM, died of bowel cancer.

Sure my GF had a sister in Shieldfield we called aunt Ginny (sp) had a daughter called Lily.

Looking through the electoral registers is a little confusing- but there are clues.

1929
Thomas Atkinson
Janet Alice Atkinson
Ethel Gustard
Ethel Stewart
Thomas William Stewart

(We know Ethel Gustard was Janet's daughter)
------------------------------------

1932 63 Wellington Street
Thomas Atkinson
Janet Alice Atkinson
George Clayton
Dorothy Clayton
----------------------------------

1933 43 Denmark Street
Thomas Atkinson
Janet Alice Atkinson
Margaret Atkinson

(Margaret Atkinson is possibly Margaret M Walker (Janet's daughter)- later married Wharton)
-------------------------------

1935 16 Russell Terrace
Thomas Atkinson
Janet Alice Atkinson
James Lait
Frank Atkinson
Martin Hawkins
--------------------------------

1936 20 Falconar Street
Thomas Atkinson (snr)
Janet Alice Atkinson
Thomas Atkinson (jnr)
Henry Atkinson

:- Thomas and Henry Atkinson possibly sons of Thomas:

Births Mar 1912
ATKINSON Thomas (Mother's maiden name: Cunningham)
Newcastle T. 10b 230

Births Sep 1914
Atkinson Henry (Mother's maiden name: Cunningham)
Newcastle T. 10b 240
--------------------------

In 1946/ 1947 there is a George A Atkinson at 200 Portland Road- wondered if this could be his birth listed under Dodd and Atkinson:

Births Jun 1923
Atkinson George Stewart Newcastle T. 10b 178
Dodd George Stewart Newcastle T. 10b 178
--------------------------

The 1925 birth already posted for Ralph seems likely- there is a photo of Ralph in the paper:

Newcastle Evening Chronicle 06 March 1945

The following have been killed in action

...Stoker First Class Ralph Atkinson RN, son of Mr and the late Mrs J A Atkinson of 200 Portland Road, Shieldfield
-----------------------------------

Newcastle Evening Chronicle 06 March 1945

Roll of Honour
Atkinson (200 Portland Road, Newcastle). In memory of first class stoker Ralph Atkinson killed in action Feb 1945. God may he rest in peace. Deeply mourned by father and family

Atkinson (200 Portland Road) Loving memories of Uncle Ralph RN, killed Feb 1945 enemy action. Remembered always Agnes Gustard, John Wilde.

Atkinson Portland Road killed Feb 1945 RN Ralph dearest youngest brother of Ellen Saints, Warwick Street. Thinking of you daily, thinking of the past, picturing you in memory, as I saw you last. Remembered always by his loving sister Nellie, brother in law Archie POW, Dorothea and Dickie.

ATKINSON (200 Portland Road) Treasured memories of our youngest brother Ralph RN aged 20 killed Feb 1945 by enemy action, Sad but true we wonder why the best are always first to die. Remembered ever by his loving sisters Jennie Ethel, Nellie, Mary, May, Ella. Memorial service Christchurch Shieldfield Sunday March 11 5.30pm

David don't forget that at the time 'aunt and uncle' were terms often applied to older family members or friends, eg my Auntie Elsie is no relation ( family friend) but that's what I called her as a child, that can lead to a bit of confusion also when trying to untangle who's who in the family :-)

There appears to have been some "sharing" within the family :-S

You're welcome David. :-)

Glad to help, David.

Hope you manage to unravel it all - it will be quite a task. Good luck

No worries David, I already received your thanks by pm yesterday :)

It's worth looking at the electoral registers on Ancestry if you have access- it might help you to make better sense of who was with who. I'll take another look at this in the morning when I have more time.