Genealogy Chat

You can see Dorothy and Richard's reg on freebmd.org.uk

There was another daughter Janet born '31

they all went to Bermuda together in 1933 on holiday

Joseph A Saints, wife Ellen, and daughter Janet

First name(s) Janet A M
Last name Saints
Gender Female
Age 2
Birth year 1931
Departure year 1933
Departure day 20
Departure month 12
Departure port Liverpool
Destination port Bermuda
Destination BERMUDA
Country Bermuda
Destination country Bermuda
Ship name Orbita
Ship official number 137467
Ship master's first name D R
Ship master's last name MORGAN
Shipping line PACIFIC STEAM NAVIGATION CO.
City LIVERPOOL
Ship destination port VALPARAISO
Ship destination country CHILE
Ship registered tonnage 9493
Number of passengers 19
Record set Passenger Lists Leaving Uk 1890-1960
Category Travel & migration
Subcategory Passenger lists
Collections from Great Britain, England

Royal Artillery attestations 1883-1942 Transcription

First name(s) Joseph Archibald
Last name Saints
Age -
Birth year -
Birth place -
Attestation year 1939
Service number 901143
Former service number -
Record set Royal Artillery Attestations 1883-1942
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

Copied from earlier post


Nyx, aunt Ethel's married name was Gustard. She was married to Martin.
She was the Mother of Jean, Mary, Brian and Tony. Newcastle upon Tyne

David
Forgive my asking, but have you done any research to back up the above statement?

I put the name Martin Gustard in the boxes on freebmd and there were NO results

Nyx

You wrote.......

Ellen appears to have married Joseph Saints as Ellen Walker??

Marriages Mar 1928 (>99%)
Walker Ellen Saints Newcastle T. 10b 71

Which doesn't make much sense!

Could this be some sort of explanation?

Marriages Dec 1917 (>99%)

Dodds Janet A Walker Newcastle T. 10b 301
Walker Frederick J Dodds Newcastle T. 10b 301

ErikaH, as a child I used to take books from my Father to the man I called Martin for swaps. This man was the husband of my aunt Ethel, who was Mother of my cousin Mary and her sister and brothers.
I'm willing to admit Martin may not have been his name, but that's what we called him.
Mary's eldest son is named Martin, presumably after his GF

Wharton Household (3 People)
186 Portland Road , Newcastle-upon-Tyne C.B., Northumberland, England

t
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Margaret M Wharton 04 May 1920 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 42 2
John Wharton 08 Mar 1915 Male Plumber & Gasfitter Married 42 1
John H Wharton 06 Jun 1939 Male Under School Age Single 42 3

Births Jun 1939 (>99%)
Wharton John H Walker Newcastle T. 10b 277



Births Jun 1920 (>99%)
WALKER Margaret M Stewart Newcastle T 10b 266

Fits with the 1917 marriage, I would suggest

If this has been posted before, I apologise for repeating

Marriages Sep 1902 (>99%)
DODD William John Newcastle T. 10b 250
Stewart Janet Alice Newcastle T. 10b 250

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
17 St Mary St Newcastle on Tyne, All Saints, Northumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Janet Dodd Head Married Female 27 1884 Newcastle on Tyne - Transcription
Jane Dodd Daughter - Female 10 1901 Newcastle on Tyne School Transcription
Ethel Dodd Daughter - Female 8 1903 Howdon on Tyne School Transcription
Frederick Walter Boarder Single Male 31 1880 Newcastle on Tyne Brickyard Putter Transcription
John Steuart Walter Boarder - Male 0 1911 Gateshead on Tyne -

The Boarders' surname is actually WalKer

I'd lay odds that the boy John was the child of Frederick and Janet

EDIT

Yes........................

WALKER, JOHN STEWART (MMN) STEWART
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 1044

STEWART, JANET ALICE (MMN) TAYLOR
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in NEWCASTLE ON TYNE Volume 10B Page 99

Name: Janet Alice Stewart
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 6 Nov 1884
Baptism Place: Christ Church, New Castle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Father: Thomas Stewart
Mother: Martha Stewart
FHL Film Number: 1469115

Marriages Dec 1882 (>99%)
Stewart Thomas Newcastle T. 10b 231 Scan available - click to view
TAYLOR Martha Newcastle T. 10b 231 Scan available - click to view

Janet's first hubby?

Deaths Dec 1926 (>99%)
Dodd William J 42 Newcastle T. 10b 81

Perhaps the 'marriage' to Walker was bigamous - hence her marrying Atkinson as Dodds.

Morning Erika, yes I think you're right on the Walker marriage I'd got about as far as looking and decided to go to bed instead lol.

David I'd suggest a long sit down to read and try and make sense of the order of children etc and who they were born to, and then perhaps look at some certs if you have them or buy from the GRO.

Coming back to the question of who was Thomas Atkinson's first wife, you know he had a son Joseph, likely to be the child of Thomas and Margaret Cunningham, so i would be inclined to buy this cert

Marriages Dec 1915 (>99%)
Cunningham Margaret Atkinson Newcastle T. 10b 406

That would confirm it's correct, and may give a better idea of Margaret's status on marriage ( on the offchance that she is the same lady as Maggie Keough named in 1911 with children surnamed Keogh/Atkinson??)

Marriages Mar 1924 (>99%)

Dodd Ethel Gustard Newcastle T. 10b 100
Gustard John Dodd Newcastle T. 10b 100


Births Dec 1924 (>99%)
GUSTARD Agnes DODDS Newcastle T 10b 174
Births Mar 1937 (>99%)
Gustard Mary H Dodds Newcastle T. 10b 233


1939
Gustard Household (4 People) should be three
186 Portland Road , Newcastle-upon-Tyne C.B., Northumberland, England


FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Ethel (Ethyle) Gustard ? Sep 1904 Female Under Domestic Dutie Unpaid Widowed 43 1 NOTE marital status, which isn't a transcription error
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.


Next door is Ellen Saints - married -born 8/2/08 - with a closed record above her name

There are two post-war births for Gustard/Dodds on freebmd, for which there is a probable corresponding marriage

Births relevant to the 1911 I posted on page one?

ATKINSON, JOHN CUNNINGHAM Order
GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE Volume 10B Page 190

one of these.........
ATKINSON, MARGARET CUNNINGHAM Order
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 113 Order
ATKINSON, MARGARET ANN CUNNINGHAM Order
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE Volume 10B Page 170 Order


ATKINSON, MARY ALICE CUNNINGHAM Order
GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE Volume 10B Page 134

From Scotland's people

Marriage
CUNNINGHAM
MAGGIE
KEOUGH
THOMAS
1899
622/2 110
Shettleston


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
87, Carntyne Street, Glasgow, Shettleston, Lanarkshire, Scotland

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Thomas Keough Head Married Male 27 1874 Ireland Coal Miner Transcription
Maggie Keough Wife Married Female 20 1881 Shettleston, Lanarkshire, Scotland Rope Worker

Death

ATKINSON, MARY ALICE 4
GRO Reference: 1912 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE Volume 10B Page 49

Newcastle Evening Chronicle 13 December 1945

In Memoriam
Atkinson- Treasured memories of my dear mother Janet who passed away Dec 13 1944. Remembered always by her loving daughter, Ellen, son in law Archie, grandchildren Dickie and Dorothy

Atkinson- In loving memory of my dear mother, Jane, died Dec 13th 1944. God opened up his golden gates and took our mother away. Lovingly remembered by daughter Ethel, Martin and 3 grandchildren.

Atkinson- In memory of my dear mother, Janet, died 13th Dec 1944. A tired heart, A weary soul, sleeping peacefully in Gods own fold. Ever remembered by her daughter Jenny, son in law Joseph and Grandchildren, Also grandson John Edwin R.N

Atkinson (200 Portland Road) In memory of my dear Gran Janet who died 13th Dec 1944. In silence she suffered, with patience she bore, Till God took her home to suffer no more. Always remembered by grandaughter Agnes Gustard N.A.A.F.I B.A.O.R

Atkinson (200 Portland Road) In memory of my dear Wife and mother Jenny died 13 Dec 1944 In silence she suffered, with patience she bore, Till God took her home to suffer no more. Always remembered by her loving husband also daughter May Ella, also son in law John and Sammy

Atkinson (200 Portland Road) Treasured memories of my darling mother died 13 Dec 1944. Often at night when sleep forsakes my eyes, My thoughts wonder to a grave where my dear mother lies. Always remembered by her loving daughter Mary, son in law Frank and grandson Frankie. Also by her son, John. Eastbourne.

Good finds :-)

Electoral register-

1920- 43 City Road
Thomas Atkinson<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Elizabeth Bede
Robert Bede
Margaret Phillips
Margaret Campbell
Joseph Campbell
Agnes Botsavage
Mary Kidd
William Kidd
Ella Hall
Ralph Hall
Elizabeth Beighet
Robert Beighet
Joseph Beighet
Frederick John Walker<<<<<<<<<<<<
Janet Alice Walker<<<<<<<<<<<

1923 & 1924- 43 City Road
Thomas Atkinson<<<<<<<<<<
Janet Atkinson<<<<<<<<<<
Elizabeth Bede
Robert Bede
Margaret Campbell
Joseph Campbell
Charles Campbell
Mary Kidd
William Kidd
Ella Hall
Ralph Hall
Elizabeth Beighet
Robert Beighet
Joseph Beighet
Frederick John Walker<<<<<<<<<<<<
Janet Alice Walker<<<<<<<<<<<

1928- 43 City Road
William Porter
Margaret Campbell
Joseph Campbell
Charles Campbell
Mary Kidd
William Kidd
William Kidd
Ella Hall
Ralph Hall
James Hall
Thomas Hall
Elizabeth Beighet
Robert Beighet
Joseph Beighet
Frederick John Walker<<<<<<<
Janet Alice Walker<<<<<<<<<

1929- 63 Wellington Street
Thomas Atkinson <<<<<<<<
Janet Alice Atkinson <<<<<<<<
Ethel Gustard
Ethel Stewart
Thomas William Stewart

1931 - 63 Wellington Street
Thomas Atkinson <<<<<<
Janet Alice Atkinson <<<<<<<<
Ethel Gustard

As Ethel Gustard was a widow in 1939, any 'husband' she had when you knew her , David, wasn't named Gustard, I'm afraid.

He may well have been called Martin, of course.

Name: Ethel Stewart Gustard
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: 28 Sep 1903
Registration Date: Apr 1987
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Inferred County: Tyne and Wear
Volume: 2
Page: 677

That is interesting ErikaH, that would mean my cousin Mary's younger brothers Tony and Brian are half brothers.

Is that your only observation?

Assuming right one , When Mary H Gustard ( mmn Dodds) m O'Donnell she was also listed as Hawkins?...and son Martin if him has mmn Hawkins not Gustard,