Genealogy Chat

AQ -
yes, I would have expected the marriage to show both surnames - but it doesn't.
Nor can I see a Malaune / Anderson marriage.

My friend confirmed her grandparents in 1967 were living with her and her parents. James later died that same year in Leith, Scotland.

Her sister lives in Sydney but has recently renovated her house so is taking a bit of time to locate the info I wanted. If anything else arises that is relevant, I will post it on the thread.

Thanks folks for your time and help.

Florence in the hebrides

OK- If the Grandparents were James Johnstone Porteous and Elizabeth Robertson Anderson then they can't both have been residing with your friend in 1967 as Elizabeth died in 1958.

It was bugging me so I used a few credits to see her death certificate:

Death:
Elizabeth Robertson Porteous
(Formerly married to James Johnston Porteous from whom she was divorced)
Death: 11th July 1958 at 23 Howclock Street, Glasgow (Possibly Havelock Street)
Age: 71 Years
Father: William Anderson (Tailor- master. Deceased)
Mother: Jane Anderson (nee Andrew. Deceased)
Cause: Cardiovascular Degeneration
Informant: R Anderson (Brother- present)
---------------------------------

So it is possible that James remarried. He may have been with Cecilia for many years before they married.
------------------------------

In 1957 there is a Robert A Anderson living at 23 Havelock Street (it looks to be a shared residence)- at number 24 there is an Elizabeth Porteous and Alice Porteous.

In 1959 Robert A Anderson is then living at 29 Havelock Street- there is also an Alice Porteous at the same address.

I suspect the Alice living with Elizabeth was her daughter- This could be her death:

Name: Alice PORTEOUS- Also Alice FALCONER
Age: 93
Mother's maiden name: ANDERSON
Death year: 2010
Ref: 280/ 342
RD Name: Elgin
------------------

Alice married Scott Falconer in 1961
-----------------------

Elizabeth and Alice were at 23 Havelock Street in 1945 (no James)- so Elizabeth and James were apart for many years.

So if the 1951 marriage to Cecilia is the correct one, but James and Elizabeth didn't divorce until 1957, James must have committed bigamy.

Long shot for Cecilia's death - assuming the 1951 marriage to be for the correct James:

PORTEOUS
CECILIA
75
1974
730/ 810
Haymarket


That's also assuming she was alive in 1967, as Florence's friend thinks.

That death would mean a YOB of 1899, which would fit with Cecilia Malaune, but not with the DOB on the 1939 register.

Is it possible that the red and green pen alterations, and whatever is on page 10 of the 1939 record, are only partially correct? Perhaps when James died and his 1939 entry was updated, they assumed that his wife was still the same person, but had been named incorrectly, and changed it to Cecilia Elizabeth, but left first wife Elizabeth's DOB?

I don't know AG- it's certainly something to consider.

I'm not sure if I missed something- the year of divorce 1957- where did it come from?

If that 1974 death is correct, would it be listed under her maiden name too- I don't see another name.

GlasgowLass mentioned the 1957 divorce on 31 Oct @ 09:12, as being on a private Ancestry tree.


Private Member PhotosPictures
[This photo is hidden by the owner's request. You can request access by clicking here.]
Photo: Elizabeth Robertson Anderson & James J Porteous 1957 Divorce Record (Edinburgh)
Category: Portrait
Attached To: James Johnston Porteous (born 1888)

Yes, you're right about the 1974 death, AQ - unless whoever provided the information didn't know her maiden name.
But you'd think Florence's friend's parents would have known - if they were still in touch with her at the time of her death, and had any input to her death registration.



EDIT:

Having said that, there's no record of the birth of a Cecilia Porteous in 1898 - 1900 in Scotland, nor in England / Wales.

I might come back to this tomorrow.

It's a bit confusing as Florence said earlier that her friend didn't know her Grandparents as her father didn't return to England until 1965.

Then later she confirms her grandparents as James and Elizabeth and said they were living with her family in Portishead in 1967. (Is Portishead in Somerset??)

But the same year James dies in Leith- so if he was living with them, what was he doing in Leith? Did the 'Grandmother' move away too?

I'll start with a fresh head tomorrow!

Still don't see Cecilia or her parents on censuses, but Mr Malaune is on the 1911 census summary, and Charlotte and Patrick Joseph Malaune are together in the 1920's, 30's ERs in Berkshire.

And there's the death of Charlotte as already mentioned, in Reading in 1940.

No sign of Cecilia, though.

EDIT:

Oh yes, here she is:


Cecilia Mallaune
in the London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1840-1911
Name: Cecilia Mallaune
Gender: Female
Age: 8
Birth Date: 25 Feb 1899
Admission Date: 25 Jun 1907
School: Stockwell College
Admission Place: Lambeth
Father: Patrick Mallaune
Notes: Stockwell College (0184) opened in or before 1861. Closed or reorganised in 1935/6




Cecelin Malanne
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Cecelin Malanne
Age in 1911: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Reading
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Street address: 101 Wokingham Road, Reading, Berks
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: School
Registration district: Reading
Registration District Number: 121
Sub-registration district: St Giles
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Household schedule number: 78
Piece: 6599
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick J Malanne 46 - Main pipe layer, born camberwell
Charlotte Malanne 40 - Camberwell
Katherine Malanne 18 - Camberwell
Cecelin Malanne 12
Edna May Malanne 10 - Reading
Frances Malanne 7 - Reading [Francis - a son]

AQ -
Yes, Portishead's in Somerset.

I wonder why Florence's friend is able to pinpoint 1967 - maybe she has a photo with that date?
Or maybe the year is a guess.

Maybe she's assuming the woman with James was Elizabeth, because Elizabeth was actually her grandmother. But it does look as if the person with James in 1967 or thereabouts was actually Cecilia.

If she's correct about 1967, James could have been in Portishead in the early part of the year, but died in Leith later on. Even if living permanently in Portishead, he may have gone to visit relatives in Edinburgh and died while there.

Or she may be mistaken about 1967.

Anything's possible!

I think the friend needs to buy James's death cert to see the details of wife, etc.

Divorce was 1952


CS258 Court of Session: Unextracted Processes, 4th arrangement 1935-1994
Country code GB
Repository code 234
Repository National Records of Scotland
Reference CS258/31765
Title James J Porteous v Elizabeth R Anderson or Porteous: Divorce
Dates 1952
Access status Closed
Location Off site
Description 3189
Level Item

Well found, RG.
That's still before 1951. (EDIT: Sorry, I meant "after" !)

Perhaps Florence's friend should also buy the 1951 marriage cert, to see if the groom was the same James Johnstone Porteous or not.

In addition to Jean's birth cert, for James's age - and James's death cert for his age, and wife's details.

Without the certs, much of what we think we've found is guesswork.

Thanks ArgyllGran. I don't think it really helps though. It's a bit unusual for there only to be one child born in the first 18 years of marriage though. Has a birth been found for daughter Alice?

Oh yes- well found on that divorce. A little annoying as it's after the 1951 marriage- nothing is easy with this family!

I've already searched for a birth for Alice c1917- I couldn't find one. There may of course have been a few children- but Alice is the only definite child I see living with Elizabeth from 1945 (although there are others at the same address- looks to be a shared property).

I think you're right AG- Florence could do with Jean's birth certificate and James J death cert to progress accurately.

On Ancestry there are lots of entries for Alice in the nursing registers:

Repository National Records of Scotland- 1955
Alice Porteous- 16 Havelock Street.
Date of registration: 27/ 10/1939
Qualifications: Western Infirmary Glasgow. A.E. -/10/39
---------------------------

In 1941 she's listed in the papers on the Midwives central board pass list.

She is again listed in 1942 for passing Certificate in Health visiting.

Both times she is listed as Alice Porteous, Glasgow

Perhaps the divorce was finalised early 1952 or perhaps even at the end of 1951. Odd thing is though that James divorce Elizabeth and there doesn't seem to be a third party involved.

I'll have another look at the deaths on Scotlandspeople for Porteous ms Anderson. Looked before but none jumping out as possible siblings for Alice.

I wonder where Alice was in 1939 as there are not closed records with James and Elizabeth.

Sorry just read your last post again AustinQ. Alice was obviously in Glasgow in 1939, probably living in the nurses home.

Grasping at straws -

maybe Alice was adopted, and therefore birth registered in another name?

Wild surmise:


ANDERSON
ALICE
F
1917
644/15 773
Hutchesontown


Possibly child of a sister of Elizabeth??
As I said - grasping at straws!