Genealogy Chat

PM on it's way hopefully with attachment. Have had a quick look at the annals and I can see that the missing word in the proclamation is "Stirches" and also that the 1712 baptism for John son of John I posted earlier is possibly a good match.

Thank you again. I would love a copy if that is possible. I also left a post on a board for information about families in the Scottish Borders and have been sent a link to a publication called The Annals of a Border Club - it confirms all my dates etc and turns out we have some more 'colourful' ancestors at last. This is the link if you are interested. It is quite a read and a great source for all families in that area.
Did have credits in Scotland's People but you go through them quite quickly especially if you get it wrong. Am planning on an Edinburgh trip and a day at the records office once I have a rough idea of who and what I am looking for.
Jo

The Annals of a Border Club
https://archive.org/stream/annalsabordercl00tancgoog#page/n116/mode/2up/search/chisholme


:-)

David, I have given you what the actual Parish Register says from the Scotland's People website - repeated below. If you would like I can send you the image which I said I have saved - let me know.

1736
July 18th This day proclaimed Mr John Chisholm younger of ?------------- and Mrs Margaret Scott Daughter of the Laird of Sinton in the parish of ?Ashkirk and gave unto the poor box .......

If you join (free) and then buy credits on the Scotlands People website -£7 for 30 credits you will be able to look at the parish registers yourself. The record in Capitals above (the Index) would cost you 1 credit (it can show up to about 25 records a page if common names etc) and to look at the actual image as I did will be 5 credits. So about £1.40 all told (beats English £9.25 a shot)

The site can be manipulated to a certain extent and without spending any further credits myself I can see that there are children born to a John and Margaret Chisholm between 1736 and 1746 in Roxburgh.

If you read their "About our Records" information you will see what information can be found
ie OPR Banns and Marriages
Parish registers may record the date(s) of the proclamation of banns or the marriage date itself or both, but only one or the other will appear in the index. There is no indication given in the index as to whether the entry is a proclamation or a marriage, but it is more usual for the index entry to show the proclamation date.

etc etc

Thank you all for your help. The marriage I found for John Chisholm and Margaret Scott is 18 July1736 Wilton, Roxburgh from the family search.org web site. I must try and get to Edinburgh to spend a day in the records office as all my family seem to have started in the Roxburgh / Berwick area. The children I have found so far with them as parents are quite spread in birth dates so I am sure there are probably more. The first son is often named after the fathers father and the second the mothers father in that area but can't be sure if I have all the children.

From Scotland's People OPR for 1736 in the parish of Wilton


Your OPR Banns & Marriages Search Returns

You searched for: Surname: "chisholm"; Surname Option: Exact; Forename: "john"; Forename Option: Prefix; Sex: "Any"; Spouse's Surname: "margaret"; Date From: 01 January 1736; Date To: 31 December 1736;


Jump to page:
of 1 (1 records)
No Date Surname Forename Spouse Name Frame No S ex Parish City/County GROS Data
1 18/07/1736 CHISHOLM JOHN MARGARET SCOTT/FR785 (FR785) M WILTON /ROXBURGH 810/00 0040 0081

Image shows -

July 18th This day proclaimed Mr John Chisholm younger of --------------? and Mrs Margaret Scott Daughter of the Laird of Sinton in the parish of ?Ashkirk and gave unto the poor box .......

Note -
John Chisholm the younger
MRS Margaret Scott
of Ashkirk - next parish to Wilton
Can't read his parish - the way others are written on the page, it may not be that it is a local parish but rather of ----------- a place name so may not be Roxburgh?

EDIT - I have saved the image if anyone else cares to take a look to see if they can decipher the place name

Wilton is a parish in the district of Hawick, Roxburgh

Family search shows many Margaret Scott's born in Roxburgh 1700-1725, including in Wilton

I wouldn't dismiss an earlier birth than 1716 though, nor a later one

There is also a John Chisholme baptism there.

and this one - where Laird also gets a mention

John Chisholm
Scotland, Births and Baptisms
Name: John Chisholm
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 24 Aug 1712
Christening Place: , HAWICK, ROXBURGH, SCOTLAND
Father's Name: John Chisholm Or Laird
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11789-2 , System Origin: Scotland-ODM , GS Film number: 1067934

???
From Ancestry

Record Image Index-only record

Name: Margaret Scott
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 20 Aug 1715
Birth Place: , Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
Father: William Scott
Mother: Jean Scott
FHL Film Number: 1067934

Attached is a baptism record from the OPR with date of baptism. I can't read all of the entry - May 8 1716 William Scott m ----------------- had a child baptised called Margaret

I think the m may mean married and what I can't decipher is a place name

"Another "famliy tradition" states that the family received a Grant of Land from the Crown, which they called after their name. This same land is now(?) in possession of the Scott family in Scotland. It appears that the Sinton Family did not hold the land any longer than from about 1130 to 1370. A family named Buccleuch took possession after that and in turn lost it to the Scott famliy(1670). This Scott family is the same family of poet Sir Walter Scott. A Walter Scott is named as the first Laird of Harden descended from a branch of Scotts of Buccleuch known as the Scotts of Sinton. Burkes Peerage list this first Laird of Harden as the second son of the Laird of Sinton. "

http://www.sinton-family-trees.com/ft_main.php?rin=230

This is obviously a lot later than your Scotts- but just wondered if the title had passed down.

Southern Reporter - Thursday 12 August 1875

"The Chairman then proposed a toast....in offering our congratulations to the young Laird of Sinton on his accession to the unrestricted enjoyment of his patrimonial inheritance, and the rights and duties that it brings with it ...I shall be greatly disappointed if my young friend does not acquit himself in the honourable position in which Providence has placed him, of a Scottish landed proprietor, as to make it a heritage of much happiness and usefulness to himself and all with whom it may bring him into connection. Mr Scott's father was one of my earliest friends; our families has been intimate for generations....."

Thank you both for you help and suggestions. The family have turned out to be farmers but not on a great landowning scale so was not expecting this to have much significance. Just wish it had his real name on the marriage certificate so I could trace the line!
Will look at local maps and see where this is.
Lots of Walter Scott's in this area so maybe a 'Walter Scott' the writer connection ....

A laird (/'l??rd/) is a member of the Scottish gentry, who bears the designation Laird of X, where X is the place name. In the non-peerage table of precedence, a laird ranks below a Baron and is the equivalent to the English rank Esquire. The Lord Lyon, who exercises Her Majesty's prerogative in respect of determining succession to titles and dignities in Scotland, has recently produced the following guidance:

“ The term ‘laird’ has generally been applied to the owner of an estate, sometimes by the owner himself or, more commonly, by those living and working on the estate. It is a description rather than a title, and is not appropriate for the owner of a normal residential property, far less the owner of a small souvenir plot of land. It goes without saying that the term ‘laird’ is not synonymous with that of ‘lord’ or ‘lady’.[1] ”
Historically, the term bonnet laird was applied to rural, petty landowners, as they wore a bonnet like the non-landowning classes. Bonnet lairds filled a position in society below lairds and above husbandmen (farmers), similar to the yeomen of England.

If no one can find an answer by searching the internet, follow this link.

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=551&815

One of the discussion groups listed at the end of the text may be able to help.
You could also pose your question directly with the research section of the National Records of Scotland (Archives etc)
http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/about-us/contact-form

looking for John Chisholm b in Roxburgh, Scotland and wife Margaret Scott b In the same area. They must have been born around 1716 as they married in 1736.
I have found 4 children - john, William, Alexander and Gilbert all born in Wilton, Roxburgh.
On the marriage record, 18 July 1736 her father is given as "Laird of Sinton Scott"
Can anyone tell me what this means and who he may be?
Thanks
Jo