Genealogy Chat

Hi. I am new to the site and I was wondering if anyone could possibly help.

I am wondering why I cannot find a precise spouse to my great, great grandfather, Robert Lincoln, who I believe got married around 1866. It just says that it could be one of two women which, as I have very little info on my family and there are two Robert Lincolns both possibly married to a Mary A or Mary Ann (according to a census his wife, the Ann's a middle name) or two other women at the right time in the right place (east/central London, I think Shoreditch) is not very helpful.

Due to the fact that once married the woman's maiden name is no longer used on any documents, I can't find out if the Mary A or Ann in question is the one linked to my Robert Lincoln. So, I know Robert married a Mary around 1866 but there are two Roberts, both in the right area who married a Mary A at that time or possibly two other women. I want to track his wife back but I can't be sure who the right one is.

I do not have the money to order certificates (something which should surely be free or at least much cheaper to family members) which I understand offer much more information. I am, currently, making the most of my 14 day free-trial.

Thank you for reading and helping if you do,

Seb

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription
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Spouse's first name(s) -
Spouse's last name -
First name(s) ROBERT
Last name LINCOLN
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1866
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ ROBERT LINCOLN married one of these people
MARY A LEWIS, ELIZA DUCHEMIN
Spouse's last name -
District SHOREDITCH
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1C
Page 224
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
West Place, St James Clerkenwell, Holborn, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Lincoln Head - Male 28 1843 - Middlesex, England
Transcription
Mary A Lincoln Wife - Female 26 1845 - Middlesex, England
Transcription
Mary A M Lincoln Daughter - Female 5 1866 - Middlesex, England
Transcription
Robert Lincoln Son - Male 3 1868 - Middlesex, England
Transcription
William C Lincoln Son - Male 0 1871 - Middlesex, England
Transcription
Mary A Smith Aunt - Female 36 1835 - Middlesex, England

Name: Robert Lincoln ( occ carman)
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Age: 22
Spouse: Mary Ann Lewis
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Feb 1866
Parish: St James, Shoreditch
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: James Lincoln>>>>>> cigar maker
Spouse Father: James Lewis
Register Type: Parish Register

If this is your direct line, which of his children was your great-grandparent? You must have that info.................name, birth year and birthplace

I can't possibly agree that certs should be free....even to family members.

How would the GRO know that the applicant was in any way related? And where you the line be drawn?

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
York Street, Stepney, Middlesex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Lincoln Head Married Male 34 1817 Cigar Maker Hull, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Matilda Lincoln Wife - Female 28 1823 - Hull, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Robert Lincoln - - Male 7 1844 - Stepney, Middlesex, England
Transcription
James Lincoln - - Male 5 1846 - Stepney, Middlesex, England
Transcription
John Lincoln - - Male 3 1848 - Stepney, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Charles Lincoln - - Male 15 1836 Cigar Maker Stepney, Middlesex, England

England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription
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First name(s) James
Last name Lincoln
Name note -
Marriage year 1842
Marriage date 27 Oct 1842
Marriage place Salem Chapel Cogan Street-Independent Or Congregatkings,Kingston Upon Hull,York,England
Father's first name(s) -
Father's last name -
Mother's first name(s) -
Mother's last name -
Spouse's first name(s) Matilda
Spouse's last name Rhodes
Spouse's father's first name(s) -
Spouse's father's last name -
Spouse's mother's first name(s) -
Spouse's mother's last name -
Place Kingston Upon Hull
County Yorkshire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

For ref Seb, there is another Robert /Mary Ann marriage in 1862.... but that Robert was born 1817 or thereabouts.

England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription
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First name(s) Robert
Last name Lincoln
Name note -
Age 45
Marriage year 1862
Marriage date 25 Dec 1862
Marriage place St. Mary Spital Square Church, Tower Hamlets, Middlesex, England
Father's first name(s) Robert
Father's last name Lincoln
Mother's first name(s) -
Mother's last name -
Spouse's first name(s) Mary Ann
Spouse's last name Sawyer
Spouse's birth year 1818
Spouse's birth date 1818
Spouse's father's first name(s) Willm.
Spouse's father's last name Sawyer
Spouse's mother's first name(s) -
Spouse's mother's last name -
Residence Tower Hamlets, Middlesex, England
Place Tower Hamlets
County Durham
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Steward St, South, Liberty of the Old Artillery Ground, Whitechapel, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Lincoln Head - Male 54 1817 - Not Known
Transcription
Mary Lincoln Wife - Female 53 1818 - Middlesex, England

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Georgiana Street, Saint Pancras Camden Town, Saint Pancras, Middlesex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Edward Decoeurdoux - Unmarried Male 52 1799 Annuitant Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Mary Hoare - Unmarried Female 62 1789 Embroideress Holborn, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Ann Redman - Widow Female 61 1790 Annuitant Middlesex, England
Transcription
James Lewis Head Married Male 33 1818 Carpenter Pembrokeshire, Wales
Transcription
Clarissa Lewis Wife Married Female 36 1815 - Linchmere, Sussex, England
Transcription
George Lewis Son - Male 7 1844 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Mary Lewis Daughter - Female 5 1846 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Clarissa Lewis Daughter - Female 3 1848 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Transcription
John Lewis Son - Male 0 1851 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Regent Terrace, Saint Anne Limehouse, Stepney, Middlesex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Small Head Married Male 64 1787 Carpenter Devon, England
Transcription
Elizabeth - Wife Married Female 68 1783 - Exeter, Devon, England
Transcription
Thomas - Son Married Male 39 1812 Carpenter London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Mary - Daughter In Law Married Female 37 1814 Dressmaker Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Transcription
William - Son Unmarried Male 35 1816 Carpenter Poplar, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Louisa - Daughter Unmarried Female 27 1824 - Poplar, Middlesex, England
Transcription
James Pell Son In Law Married Male 37 1814 Sailmaker Poplar, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Caroline - Daughter Married Female 29 1822 - Poplar, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Mary Ann Lewis Grand Daughter - Female 6 1845 - Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Caroline E Pell Grand Daughter - Female 1 1850 - Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Infant - Grand Daughter - Female 0 1851 - Limehouse, Middlesex, England

A bill has been passed which will allow the GRO to issue certificate data without it being on a certificate. Don't expect any change soon though.

This article from the latest Lost Cousins newsletter explains it.
http://lostcousins.com/newsletters2/apr15news.htm#BMD

Thank you very much to everyone who has helped, you're very kind.

Safc, are the last four posts you put on for a different Robert Lincoln to the first ones you put on?

Seb

Seb the Mary Ann Lewis who married in 1866, her father is listed as James Lewis . mathematical instrument maker, but not seeing him in the census, Ann Lewis was a witness to that marriage .

Thank you Rose. Can I ask how you found that out?

The witness to the marriage that is.

Yes Ancestry have LMA records which includes "London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

This data collection contains marriage records and marriage banns dating from 1754-1921 from more than 10,000 Church of England parish registers"

so you can view the actual register images, which include the occupations, witnesses etc. very useful for anyone with London ancestors as I have, also has images for baptisms,

I see, thanks. And also why does the website list two possible women who may have been married to Robert?

You will find that a lot. looking for eg on freebmd.org.uk you can see two couples with the same page and volume number... on Ancestry the image for those couples is on the same page...so I can see who married who.

Marriages Mar 1866 (>99%)
DUCHEMIN Eliza Shoreditch 1c 224 view
Lewis Mary A Shoreditch 1c 224
LINCOLN Robert Shoreditch 1c 224
Partrick Thomas Shoreditch 1c 224

It is usually possible to work out which couple married by names in the census following, but not always, especially if the wives happen to have the same first name...that is when it is necessary to get the cert.