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Thank you. that's very helpful. :-)
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Public libraries often have free access to ancestry and findmypast - might be worth enquiring.
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GR has pretty much the same as FMP - as far as London is concerned, this means parish records for Westminster and the west end - incl Pimlico, St George Hanover Sq, St Marylebone, etc. Ancestry has most of London via the London Metro Archives.
I think your next step is to locate your grandparents on the 1911 census, then follow their lines back thru the censuses. You have their m.cert so know their fathers (assuming they didn't lie - my dad's stepfather did lie to mask his illegitimacy - how long this masking went on for, I don't know, but all his kids knew by the time they left home, so maybe it was just for the ceremony).
It was to help locate John with his dad that I asked for his age - obviously if he were 20, it's pointless looking for him on 1881. Also, the witnesses were usually siblings or siblings in law of the couple, so knowing them helps with the census search. Occasionally, the witness is merely the parish clerk or a mate of his, so if you get to see the m.cert online, and there's a strange witness, check if he's also a winess on most of the adjacent marrs.
WHAT WAS JOHN'S AGE AND WHO WERE THE WITNESSES ON HIS MARR CERT?
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My grandad, John Davis, married Nan, Katherine or Catherine McGregor on 25 December 1913. Grandad's age says 22years,( his DOB was 22/11/1891 so this is correct) and his father, John Davis, is said to be deceased, ( I believe he died in 1899).
Nan is said to be 20 years old,( her DOB was 18.3.1895 so she was only 18), and her father is Charles McGregor. The marriage was in the presence of H Knox then looks like V Beryfield and J Know.
I have lost track of the family on the 1901 census as obviously, great grandad was deceased and grandad's siblings seem to have disappeared! My great nan, Catherine Ball, may have re married as my grandad did not get on with her new "man" and put himself into Barnardos childrens home!
Please can you tell me how to view the certificates online?
I really appreciate all the help.
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Not the line you're after, but...
1911 [rg14/1535 rd20 (Stepney) sd1 (Shadwell & Ratcliff) ed6 sn291]
HOUSEHOLD MACGREGOR MR CHARLES M 1870 41 Stepney London
HOUSEHOLD MACGREGOR MRS F 1876 35 Stepney London
HOUSEHOLD MACGREGOR JAMES M 1893 18 Stepney London
HOUSEHOLD MACGREGOR CATHERINE F 1895 16 Stepney London
HOUSEHOLD MACGREGOR ELIZABETH F 1900 11 Stepney London
HOUSEHOLD MACGREGOR WILLIAM M 1902 9 Stepney London
HOUSEHOLD MACGREGOR CHARLES M 1904 7 Stepney London
HOUSEHOLD MACGREGOR ARTHUR M 1907 4 Stepney London
HOUSEHOLD MACGREGOR ANNIE F 1909 2 Stepney London
There is a 1901 McGregor family in Stepney RD - Registration Sub-District: Ratcliff
Charles E 33
Mary 27
James 8
Catherine 6
Mary 2
[I don't have any sub, so I can't see the image nor the transcription - there could be other members in the h/h.
Kate'a uncle James also has a h/h in the same piece RG13/291, I think.]
1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X3GR-BK1
James Macgregor Head M 47 Scotland
Mary Ann Macgregor Wife F 39 London, London, Middlesex, England
James Macgregor Son M 16 London, London, Middlesex, England
John Macgregor Son M 11 London, London, Middlesex, England
Charles Macgregor Son M 14 London, London, Middlesex, England
William Macgregor Son M 8 London, London, Middlesex, England
Walter Macgregor Son M 5 London, London, Middlesex, England
Thomas Macgregor Son M 2 London, London, Middlesex, England
Laura Macgregor Daughter F 0 Ratcliff, Middlesex, England
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There's a convention on genealogical sites that if an age is given on some record dated in year Y, one estimates the birth year by subtracting the age from Y.
Here's an example from FS for the 1920 US census
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M61S-SWS
Name: Clara E Wallace
Event Place: Sadsbury, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, United States
Age: 35
Birth Year (Estimated): 1885
Line Number: 38
https://archive.org/stream/14thcensusofpopu1585unit#page/n4/mode/1up
I picked this census as the nominal census day was 1/1/1920 - they were actually enumerated 2/1/1920 as you can see from the header.
Clara was almost surely born in 1884 (unless Clara was born 1/1/1885).
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By law, information from English/Welsh registrars can only be released in the form of BMD certificates.
Although having a formal cert makes life easier if you're wanting to get a passport, or get a body buried, or etc, it really is overkill for genealogical purposess.
The rest of the UK (and former UK) allow one to purchase "uncertified" images of their registers at a discounted price. These images might be sent by email.
[This is useful if you're needing an 1870s Irish b.cert.
It's cheaper still if you've gotten the ref info from the civil index, say via
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
For purchase, see
http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx ]
English/Welsh B & D certs can be bought from the local registery office that now holds the register containing the original registration, or from the GRO that has a copy of that rego.
M.certs can be bought at the above places, but also from the church if it's in their current rego. The local rego office holds a copy of this rego, and when the church's rego is full, and the copy checked, the full rego is deposited in some archive, usually the county records office.
If the couple got wed in a church that had no authoruzed person to keep an official m.rego, so the official m.cert was recorded in the registrar's rego, the church was free to make their own record of the marr. Such records were eventually deposited in some archive - in the case of RC records, this was often the diocese archives.
As a footnote, most folk buy records from the GRO Kath gave the URL in the 2nd post of this thread.
As I indicated earlier, some archives have some of their records online, incl parish rego's.
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If you just want to see a marr rego, here's one from Mancester - nowt to do with your Davis so far as I know.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VZKD-9T3
There's an image link via that URL, but you can no ;onger page thru the rego
Accessing the same image via "browse images" lets me browse thru the rego:
http://tinyurl.com/o42m283
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On a practical note, I would download every record onto my PC.
I would also copy & paste transcriptions into text files on my PC.- I paste into notepad.
Click on the windows start button - all programs - accessories - notepad.exe
(You might follow this path with a final right-click on notepad.exe and create a shortcut which you could cut and paste onto your desktop) I have several files for transcriptions, basically one tracing back from each grandparent, and one for all the more recent stuff - aunts, cousins etc.
Still, I'm sure everyone develops their own way of dealing with things.
One point abt the downloading is that if you let your subscription lapse for whatever reason, you'll still have access to the images you've downloaded./
Finally, I would sign up for the free membership on Ancestry and also sign up to receive emails abt collection upates, and abt offers. You can also sign up for a two-week free full access trial - you have to provide credit details for this and cancel in time to avoid them charging you, but I would postpone this for now - you'll get a lot more benefit from this with a few more months experience - it is a one-time free trial.
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Thank you so much! That is very useful. I'm determined to get through this. Just wish I had more time to devote to it. Need to win the lotto so I can retire!
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Also, I think the 1901 census family is correct . Charles McGregor married an Irish lady so I believe this was Mary. I think the 1911 census above is a different McGregor family. It is so confusing when they all seem to use the same Christian names for their offspring!
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oh, I'm getting in such a muddle! I think Charles McGregor married a Catherine Thompson!
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These would seem to be the 1901 kids:
Births Dec 1892 (>99%)
Macgregor James Edward Stepney 1c 383
Births Jun 1895 (>99%)
McGregor Katherine Helen Stepney 1c 423
Births Sep 1899 (>99%)
MacGregor Mary Elizabeth Stepney 1c 378
Check the 1901 image to see if Mary's age is really said to be 2 - mistranscriptions aren't confined top names.
I think the reason there's a 1911 with almost the same names for the eldest 1911 kids is that they're the same kids.
The obvious way to check who your Kath's mum was is to buy Kath's b.cert - the informant was probably one of Kath's parents, but might be one of Kath's grandparents - those rellies are the usual informants.
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