Genealogy Chat

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1351628

and others

You're welcome, good luck and enjoy!

Joonie,

We've had some correspondence from a distant relative who confirms Irene Miskin married "Bill Martin" in 1927. We also now have a couple of photos of her plus confirmation they had no children.

No luck yet for any death dates for Francis, Irene or Charles but we have found a family tree on Ancestry that has Francis and Irene on it - but no more information than we already have - apart from who her parents were. I have sent a message and now hoping for a reply.

Thanks again, Stephen

so ... how come I missed this before?


all living on Walker St West

Name: Charles Alfred Martin
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1937
State: Queensland
District: Herbert
Subdistrict: Townsville
labourer

Name: Francis William Martin
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1937
State: Queensland
District: Herbert
Subdistrict: Townsville
labourer

Name: Irene Martin
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1937
State: Queensland
District: Herbert
Subdistrict: Townsville
home duties


so now we have pretty solidly confirmed this marriage that I suggested before

1927 C3659
Irene Miskin
Francis William Martin

with Charles living with them


hard to track Charles after that


interesting to note that in 1949 both Francis and Irene are at 54 6th Street in Townsville, but in 1943 only Irene was there ... there is a Francis, seaman, at the Hotel Metropole which could be a coincidence, but I wonder whether in any event he was away from home involved in the war effort in some way and possibly even overseas

no luck finding any adult children in the household, late 40s-early 50s being when they would most likely have shown up

1954 the couple is in Gympie and there is another couple there, Alfred Henry with wife Ursula Mary, him a hotelkeeper at the Columbia Hotel ... can only search marriages to 1941 but Ursula first appears on the electoral roll in 1954 so they do seem to be the generation younger

1958-1968 both Alfred and Ursula are in Landsborough ... from 1972 only she is there, still home duties, but after that she is employed ... 1972 he is a hotel manager in Nambour and I can't trace him after that

anyway just wondering whether he is a son of Francis William

and now you only have to find the right Charles Alfred Martin in Australian records :-D

at least you know who you are looking for now !

glad to have helped, come on back here if there is something else that might be done

and put him in your tree!

Well done Joonie!

We now have tthe birth cert of Charles Martin jnr which confirms:

Charles Alfred Martin

Born 28th November 1904
21 Mintern Street, Hoxton N1

Father, Charles John Martin, General Labourer
Mother, Frances Rosetta Martin, formerly Day

Seems he was named Alfred after his uncle Alfred Martin who died in infancy a few years before.

Regards, Stephen

Fantastic Joonie.

We've pinned them down - now to find out more!

Thanks again,
Stephen

Joonie, We dont yet know what the A stands for on the passenger list.. As yet we cant confirm his name as we havent got his birth cert.

Charles John Martin is his father and the family moved to 71 Gosport Road, Walthamstow. His parents are there in the 1960s Electoral Rolls

He was born in Walthamstow - the 1911 census has transposed his place of bitrh with that of his uncle George above him. George was definitely born in Hoxton as we have his birth certificate.

I will send for that 1905 Hoxton birth certificate for Charles Alfred Martin to see what details are on it

We have tried several times to get on to the "free" Australian Ancestry without success

Thanks again for your help, Stephen

if you know what the 'A' in Charles's name stood for, you can search the Australian electoral rolls for him too

or just check out all the Charles Martins and look for one who was an electrician :-)

still free until midnight on the 26th Australian time!

http://search.ancestry.com.au/search/db.aspx?dbid=1207


ps - without reading the whole other thread
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1330354
I note that you said on page 1 that Charles's middle initial was 'J'

Has his birth been identified to get correct info about his name?

I can't quite figure out what you said about his birthplace being Walthamstowe not Hoxton as it says in the 1911

There's no 1905 birth in West Ham but there is one in the reg dist for Hoxton:

Births Mar 1905
Martin Charles Alfred Shoreditch 1c 54

Further to our finding Francis William Martin's departure to Brisbane in 1923 we have now found his older brother Charles followed him to Brisbane, departing from London on the Vessel Sophocles on 30th January 1924. He is listed as Chas A Martin, Occupation Electrician.

Both Francis and Charles addresses are shown on the passenger lists as 71 Gosport Road, Walthamstow, which we know was their home address at that time.

As with Francis, we are now looking to see what we can find of his life down under.

Thanks to all, Stephen

Thanks for all that Joonie,

As far as we know, Francis was still alive in the 1980s. I have seen a photo taken when he came home on a visit then but there is no wife with him.

Thanks for the tip about Ancestry being free for Australia records - I'll take a look.

Stephen

Stephen and Dave

just read a thread on Genealogy Chat

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1348823

Ancestry is having a free weekend for Australian records 22-26 January

if you have an old account or sign up for a new free account at any Ancestry (co.uk, .com ...) you should be able to access those records and you can have a look around for yourself too

In case the William Francis Martin on the electoral roll in QLD is your Bill, his wife's death is accessible in records at the link I gave earlier.

1966, Irene Martin, father John Francis Miskin, mother Odavia Hannah Lashbrook.

If you don't receive any response from the trees with Irene in them, the only way you could likely get more info is a certificate, and I'd suggest the QLD marriage certificate which should give parents' names. QLD sells both certificates ($28) and images ($20) and the image is all you need.

I know that NSW death certificates list the deceased's spouse and children as well as parents (if the parents' names are known of course) so if the marriage certificate showed parents to match Bill, Irene's death certificate might give a lot more info to help find descendants.

The surname is unfortunately so common that info could be hard to come by.

There is a 1955 death in NSW for a Charles Albert Martin with parents Charles Albert and Frances (the search results don't show age), but your Charles-s did not have middle names. No Martin deaths in QLD up to 1985 with your boys' parents.

Tthere are two William Francis Martin deaths in QLD in 1964 (wrong order but an easy mistake if he went by Bill) with parents that don't match your Bill's, one in Brisbane and one in "Country", but there are 4 by that name on the 1954 electoral roll.

There is no Francis William Martin death. Deaths are accessible only to 1985 when would have been only 60. That FWM's wife Irene died very young.

In 1954, the Francis William Martin and Irene couple were in Gympie and he was a depot superintendent, with no adult children in the household.
In 1949 they were in Townsville and he was a Shell Company employee, again with no adult children in the household.
They would not have had adult children in the election before that.

The Ryerson Index shows two Francis William Martin deaths, one much too old in 1935 and one who was 85 when he died in 2000 in Melbourne who went by Frank.
http://ryersonindex.net/search.php

Buying the wrong certificate is something few of us escape, so unless one of the tree contacts can confirm or deny ... I think I might try that marriage. But it is a bit of a long shot still.

I've been advised to add this to the ongoing thread rather than start a new one. Perhaps someone could suggest the best way to go as I previously put this on the Australia chat board, but I've now been redirected back again!

Sorry to repeat some of it but this is where we are so far:

We are trying to find more of what happend to our ancester Francis William Martin after he emigrated to Austraila. He was born in Walthamstow in 1907. His father was Charles John Martin and his mother was Frances. In the 1911 census they lived at 112 Longellow Road Walthamstow.

He set sail for Brisbane in April 1923 from London aboard the ship Esperance Bay and is shown was a farm worker on the ships passenger list which gives his address was 71 Gosport Road, Walthamstow, the family address at the time which confirms it is him. Joonie has given us some clues which we are trying follow up. If anyone can find more of what happend to Francis when he settled in Oz we would be very grateful.

Francis was only 16 at the time but we dont know who he travelled with. We understand his older brother Charles also emigrated there but does not appear on that same passenger list. As my brother says above, there is a Charles Martin (born 1905, right age) who sailed on the Bendigo from London to Sydney in the February the same year. Can anyone find more about him?

Many thanks, stephen marden

Joonie.

Thanks for the info on Francis William Martin and wife Irene in Austraiia. That all seems very promising and I'll do my best to contact some of those trees.

Stephen

I am Stephen's brother Dave. I have a family tree on Ancestry and we share all the info we get. Just to add my thanks to all for the great job you did on tracking down "Bill" Martin who emigrated to Austraila. As Stephen says, everything fits to him being Francis William Martin with the confirmatrion of his home address at Gosport Road Walthamstow. All we had to go on was a photo of "William Martin" from Australia and we now know that he and Francis were the same person.

We are told that his older brother Charles also went to Australia and I have found a Charles Martin aged 18 (fits as he was born 1905) also sailing to Australia in February 1923 aboard the vessel Bendigo from London to Sydney.. Could be his brother but his address is St Johns Wood and will have to check that out.

Again, thanks for your help, much appreciated, Dave

thanks very much it was francis william martin,who we think was known as bill who sailed to brisbane on the esperance bay,his address at 71 gosport rd walthamstow is also correct it was his parents house once again many thanks stephen marden

I tend to agree with Kathleen

Births Mar 1907 (West Ham covers Leyton)
MARTIN Francis William W. Ham 4a 386

that child was born before the census date and so would have been 4 in the 1911 census, as Francis in the 1911 household was

since his mother was Frances and he had a younger sister Frances, it would not be surprising if he were called William

on the other hand it might be odd for the couple to have a child William when they already used that name for this child's middle name


and I agree that the FWM on the passenger list is rather too perfect a match by name, age and address in England


just to surmise a little ... the best match in Australian electoral rolls, assuming that he stayed in Queensland, is, using 1936 for example

Francis William Martin, labourer
Walker St West,
Townsville, Herbert

also at that address

Irene Martin, home duties


a search at Queensland BMD

https://www.qld.gov.au/law/births-deaths-marriages-and-divorces/family-history-research/

finds a 1927 marriage of Francis William Martin and Irene Miskin

and that would be the right timing for your William to have married

Irene Miskin was born in Queensland in 1906, daughter of John Francis and Odavia Hannah Lashbrooke

searching for information about those names could lead to something that would confirm or deny this being your William

in fact there are numerous family trees at Ancestry that show Odavia Hannah Lashbrook (not Lashbrooke) with daughter Irene, but no info about Irene (or private info)

contacting some of those people might be useful

just to shed a little light here :-)

Stephen knows where and who his family are in 1911, no need for guessing

this is just so we can see the data in the form we're used to


1911

Name: Charles Martin
Age in 1911: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1905
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
* Birth Place: Hoxton, London, England

Civil Parish: Walthamstow
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 112 Longfellow Rd, Walthamstow
Registration district: West Ham

Charles Martin 32 born Hoxton
Frances Martin 29
George Martin 28 * brother born Walthamstow
Charles Martin 6
Francis Martin 4 born Leyton
Lily Martin 2 born Leyton
Frances Martin 6/12 born Walthamstow

* so Stephen you're saying that it should be
Charles born Walthamstow
George born Hoxton (like his brother Charles Sr)


Do you have any idea what age they were when they would have gone to Australia?

the names are just so very common to be searching for ...



oh ...... I had skipped over Chris Ho's post about the previous thread, 4 pages long in 2013

I'm afraid I'm not going to read it all to see what info has already been discussed and how it might relate to this one ...........

I still think that the Francis W. Martin in the birth I posted above for 1907 could very well be the son of Charles and Frances (therefore the younger brother of the Charles born 1905 and possibly using his middle name William).

His age and birthplace also match up with the Francis W. Martin on the pasenger list going to Brisbane, Australia in 1923.

You say in your reply that Francis William was an uncle. Whose uncle?

Kath. x