Genealogy Chat

about Esau Webb (and Ann, all that info is known and was discussed earlier in the thread)

it was not at all uncommon for Home Children to return to England from Canada (less so from Australia I suspect) once they were adults and able to make their own way

some Home Children made very successful lives after emigration, even those who had unfortunate childhoods where they were placed, while others were less satisfied and chose not to remain


Esau is in the 1901 as James and 1911 as E J (transcribed as E G by Ancestry), with wife Emma in 1901 as in 1891 (Elizab in 1911)

so he was back in England by 1887

Marriages Dec 1887
CROOKS Emma Elizabeth Orsett 4a 442
WEBB James Orsett 4a 442

Ancestry appears to have incoming passenber records for the period 1881-1887 from Canada for only 14 passengers who travelled in 1886 ... records are more extensive for passengers from the US, but it looks like, if he travelled from Canada, the records just do not exist

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1518

'The passenger lists date from 1878 to 1888 and 1890 to 1960. However, many of the pre-1890 lists were irregularly destroyed by the Board of Trade in 1900. Therefore, there are not many lists included in this database that date from these earlier years.
>> Separate lists were kept for British (and Commonwealth) passengers and Alien passengers.'

... and it looks like those, the Commonwealth passengers, are the ones that survived the least

Reg I tend to think it was a 'quirk' on the part of the householder themself who had misunderstood the instructions ... the census workers were then stuck with what the householder had put on the schedule since no actual place of birth was reported

I have seen this in 1911 in particular ... searching using place of birth 'subject' as the only criterion, here's one who has birthplace 'British Subject', and in the next column headed 'nationality of every person born in a foreign country' they have entered 'Faversham' ... next up, the Aldreds have entered 'Norwich British Subject' for their birthplaces ...

"Reg


I think you will find that it was just a quirk by the local enumerator.


Did you check the image to see whether "British Subject" was put for neighbours??"

Thanks SylviainCanada, "British Subject" for near neighbours is preceded by Ireland etc.

Name: Esau Webb
Gender: Male
Age: 19y
Birth Year: 1862
Birthplace: England
Occupation: Servant
Ethnicity: English
Religion: Ch. England
Head of Household Name: Fredrick Lyster
Event Place: Kingsey, Drummond & Arthabaska, Quebec, Canada
District Number: 52
Sub-District: L
Division: 1
Page Number: 1
Family Number: 3
Affiliate Film Number: C-13197

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Fredrick Lyster M 43y Quebec
Emma Lyster F 38y Quebec
Howard Lyster M 9y Quebec
Christopher Lyster M 7y Quebec
Henrietta Lyster F 5y Quebec
Ashley Lyster M 3y Quebec
George Taylor M 29y Quebec
Esau Webb M 19y England
Lizzy Henry F 20y Quebec

Household ID: 1003127 , Digital Folder Number: 4463389 , Image Number: 00084 , GS Film number: 1375833

Name: Esau Webb
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1891
County: Essex
Parish: GRAYS THURROCK
Ecclesiastical Parish: GRAYS THURROCK
Sub-District: GRAYS
Registration District: ORSETT
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birthplace: Grays, Essex
Schedule Type: Household

Name: Esau James Webb
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1862
Registration District: Orsett
County: Essex
Event Place: Orsett, Essex, England
Volume: 4A
Page: 121
Line Number: 53

Thank you Joonie, Cynthia, Jacqueline and Sylvia for you responses. I had posted my request a couple of years ago but the Ireland connection has only been mentioned to me recently so I thought I would give it a go. I have taken Joonie's advice and messaged the member who has Francis Duffin born Northern Ireland in 1870 it is worth a try, I have tried the comparisons suggested and came up with a blank. Thanks Jacqueline I was not aware that there were no passenger lists for people travelling to Ireland so I am grateful for that information we live and learn. I have also looked on family search for a death in Ireland but without much success I am really hoping I can solve this mystery it is the reason I started my family history research. I am sure Mr Adolph would be very proud of you all trying to offer your help

For those who haven't noticed it.........

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1349110

Have deleted my original response to Anita, which was posted before GR put the clock right.........

here it is again, making sense

Anita

There are no such things as passenger lists for travel between England and Ireland
You could try looking for a death in Ireland using familysearch website

I've deleted my double posting........and will alert Anita to the responses and that we have a timing issue... :-D

I have for the past 20 years been trying to find the death record of my Great Grandfather Francis Duffin (born in Nottingham in 1866 parents William Duffin and Frances Maria nee Sladen). He left my Great Grandmother Clara (nee Pinchess) and family around 1922 which is the last year he appears on the electoral roll at their home address and I have tracked all other records up to this date. My Grandad Clement married my Grandmother Annie in 1924 and according to her account she never met Francis which does confirm his year of departure some what . I obtained a death certificate of a Francis Duffin who died in Newcastle in 1941 the age of death is 10 years out but I thought that may be he had lied about his age to keep working. Unfortunately no family members name appears on the certificate and the probate record draws a blank too. One of my relatives in New Zealand said that they were told he had gone over to Ireland to run a pub I have checked the passengers lists and have drawn a blank there. Anthony is there anything you can suggest to solve this nearly ninety year mystery once and for all? I would be grateful for any help.

had just gone looking and found that, Sylvia !

and now Anita's post will keep moving down the thread, so at least nobody can miss it anyway :-D

for JoonieC, and others who are confused by the order of posts ..............


There is a new Announcement by GR ..............

---------
Genes Advisor 30 Jan 2015 17:28

Please be advised that we are aware of an issue with our clock that appears to be running in a timezone all of its' own at the moment !

We are looking into this and hope to have it fixed as soon as possible.

-----


:-D :-D :-D

! somehow Anita's post got post-dated :-D

(she posted before Cynthia and I did but now it appears as if she posted after us ... ?? and so if the other replies to her were there when I first read, I missed them because they were in reverse order!)

thanks Cynthia

I guess she didn't read the thread so didn't expect others to help ... but even Anthony Adolph might have liked to know what others had done to try to find Frank ...


someone here at Genes Reunited has a Frank Duffin born 1870 in Northern Ireland in their tree ... I wonder whether that person would be worth contacting (familysearch shows a Francis Duffin born in Northern Ireland in 1866 only)

Hi Anita, the 1941 death record is for a Francis aged 63 in December which makes dob 1878 pretty certain, unless he was born in the last bit of 1877 (I mean as reported, not necessarily true)

there were Francis Duffin births in 1873 and 1874 and 2 in 1883 ... all with middle names ... so none very close to 1878 ...

3 of them (1873, 1883, 1883) died in early childhood but there is no marriage or death record for Francis Joseph who was born 1874 in Oldham so he would have to be ruled out too

(had you done these comparisons already?)

if he went to Ireland there would not be a passenger list ... they were not kept for voyages between England/Scotland and Ireland

Anita was looking for help a couple of years ago.......


http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1293844

Reg


I think you will find that it was just a quirk by the local enumerator.


Did you check the image to see whether "British Subject" was put for neighbours??

Thank you Jacqueline and Cynthia for your kind responses. The non-availability of some 1861 pieces may possibly explain my difficulty tracing the family.

As regards the family in the 1851 Census, it just seems odd to me that only "British Subject" is recorded for "Where Born", with no country mentioned.

Hello Reg......I found the following information which may or may not be, helpful. :-)


'From the census of 1851 more informative answers were required. In England and Wales in 1851, householders were to indicate first the county, and then the town or parish of birth of those born in England. This arrangement was to be followed in all subsequent Victorian censuses. For those born in Scotland, Ireland, the British Colonies, the East Indies or Foreign Parts, the country of birth was to be given. The term 'British Subject' was to be added to the latter if appropriate. Wales was not mentioned in the instructions until 1891, when it was treated in the same manner as England.'

Taken from:

http://histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/View?path=Browse/Essays%20%28by%20kind%29/Census/Great%20Britain&active=yes&mno=2075



Oh yes.... welcome to the Community boards.. :-)

Reg

Many 'pieces' of 1861 are not available....and the majority are for the Home Counties.

If you want AA - or anyone else - to give an opinion, it would help if you gave some birth year info at least, to enable them to find these people in 1851

FMP shows 104 people named Ann Mayhew in 1851

EDIT

This is the record in question

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Exeter Buildings, Saint Luke Chelsea, Chelsea, Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Ann Mayhew - Widow Female 40 1811 - - Transcription
Mary Ann Mayhew Daughter Unmarried Female 24 1827 - - Transcription
Louisa Mayhew Daughter Unmarried Female 18 1833 - - Transcription
Sarah Mayhew Daughter Unmarried Female 16 1835 - - Transcription
John Mayhew Son - Male 11 1840 - - Transcription
Geornia Mayhew Daughter - Female 3 1848 - - Transcription
Census details
First name(s) Ann
Last name Mayhew
Marital status Widow
Gender Female
Age 40
Birth year 1811
Birth place as transcribed British Subject****************************
Street Exeter Buildings
Town Hans
Parish Saint Luke Chelsea
City -
County Middlesex
Hamlet -
Parliamentary borough -
Municipal ward -
Registration district Chelsea
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1474
Folio 78
Page 66