Genealogy Chat

I have found several deaths here:-
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
Ok they had to have probate but here is an example:-
ABRAHAMS WALTER ANTHONY 17 April 2014 4303652 10 March 2014 Grant and will Oxford

To be frank it is the death records that I would like. If a relative has died there is not point in trying to find them. I have been able to contact a couple of living relatives through the electoral roles, and even on Facebook! You do not need to have the certificates - just the information.

meander

What you state is true. And it is that desire to see where we each fit in to a 'tree' that drives many of us on. Well, at least those of us who post mainly on the Genealogy Chat Board.

But my main point is around your requirement for the most recent BMD's. (post 2005/6) How will they assist you - especially recent births? How would such records enable you to meet people who knew your relatives? Did you intend to buy all the certificates (for addresses)?

And how far out (sideways - 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc..cousins) are you trying to go?

Reply for Inky1
Not everyone is lucky enough to know who their family are, and only through tracing your family tree can you find relatives. I have several new branches on my tree I did not know existed, and I would like to know if I have any further living relatives. Also it would be nice to meet people who knew my relatives and to find out more about them on a personal note.

Jax,

Somebody might comment about 'freedom of information' - but not me. I cannot see how making available such data is in the public interest.

I know the relevant dates for my family including 1st cousins and their children/grandchildren. Even some 2nd cousins that I am still in contact with. Do I really need access to anything else?

Perhaps meeander can explain why she stated :-

" would be of great help to myself and other Genes users "

Why should everything be available to all in this country, when other countries like Canada have a 50 year or longer ruling on their certs

BUT its not just the GRO releasing the info it has to be transcribed quarter by quarter to put it into searchable indexing which was what the DOVE project was supposed to do but was stopped because of the expense .

No matter how much you dont like this its not going to happen because the Government wont pay for it .

No FTM website has the power over the government decision as the info really is only in the public interest of family researchers.

Sorry but you need to accept its not happening even though we would like the access

Had the following reply from Genes

"The General Register Office was part of the Office of National Statistics, but is now part of the Passport Office. Owing to the view that the Passport Office takes on information, it has been decided that it should no longer be made public to in such a manner.

Therefore no further BMD indexes for any date after those currently available will be added to the website as a result of this. This means that the only place you will find such indexes will be at your local registration office.

The 1911 census is the most recent census records that are available to search.

All censuses after 1911 are covered by the 1920 Census Act, so the 1921 census and all censuses thereafter will remain closed for 100 years. "

I would have thought the Family Tree websites would be petitioning for records to be released to them so they can continue to update their data and earn their bread and butter.

So how is anything before 2006 not subject to data privacy issues??

Walks away scratching head :-S

Yes, that's correct. The following extract courtesy of Wikipedia.

Digitisation and Indexing (D&I) Project

A project, called DoVE (Digitisation of Vital Events), to digitise the GRO's records of birth, marriage and death was initiated in 2005. Implementation of the project was outsourced to Siemens IT Solutions and Services in a three-year contract which expired at the end of July 2008. The process of scanning, digitising and indexing suffered severe delays, with only (roughly) half the records delivered by the end of the contract period. By mutual agreement between the IPS and Siemens, the contract was not extended. Digitisation of birth records up to 1934 and death records up to 1957 had been completed when the contract ended.

The records that have been digitised – over 130 million of them – form part of a system (called EAGLE, for "Electronic Access to GRO Legacy Events") which is used within the GRO to fulfil requests for certificates from the general public. A different system, known as MAGPIE ("MultiAccess to GRO Public Index of Events"), was intended to make the indexes available to the public via a website, but this will not now be implemented. Instead, following a lengthy review of options, a new project, called the Digitisation and Indexing (D&I) Project, was initiated.

The D&I Project was planned to: complete the digitisation of birth, marriage and death records; create an online index to those records; and improve the certificate ordering process.[9] In September 2010 this project was suspended pending the outcome of the latest UK Government Comprehensive Spending Review.[10] The IPS expected to reach a decision on the future of the digitisation project during financial year 2011/12,[11] but in August 2012 it was announced that "there are no current plans to resume this work". However, the IPS says it "will continue to monitor the scope for future opportunities to digitise all birth, death and marriage records".[12]

References refer to Govenment documents titled "Digitisation of civil registration records" [9] and "Modernising civil registration" [10] - [12]

Wasn't it referred to as DOVE or something like that? :-S

I did read the privacy / data protection excuse is actually a red herring.

The indexes were withdrawn when the family records centre closed. They were supposed to be quickly replaced by an online database but this was put on ice when funds ran out before work could be completed.

The GRO would be acting illegally if they did not provide public access to the latest indexes. Whilst genealogy sites can no longer purchase copies of the register for transcription, complete sets are available to view in person at:

Manchester City Library
Birmingham Central Library
Bridgend Reference and Information Library
Plymouth Central Library
City of Westminster Archives Centre
London Metropolitan Archives
The British Library

Hello meeander,

Unfortunately 'Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it' has the answer - no more England & Wales BMDs are being released for online publication by the GRO due to data privacy issues.

If people want to obtain records post 2005/6, they will need to order a certificate from the GRO http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

For very recent events (last 6 months for births or deaths, and last 18 months for marriages) they would need to apply directly to the registry office where the event was registered.

Many thanks,

Hannah

Genes had records before they were bought by Brightsolid.
If I remember correctly FMP dropped their 1901 census in favour of the one owned by Genes.

If that is the case I hope the databases are direct copies rather than mirror images.
:-)

I suggest that "GR do hold their own transcription records" simply means that they have the databases up on their own servers. Those databases being mirror images of those on the 'parent' site findmypast.co.uk - per DET above.

As already indicated there is nothing that GR, Brightsolid, Ancestry or indeed any other genealogy site can do even if they wanted to do as far as BMD records are concerned.

The decision not to release recent records to organisations for transcription was made by the GRO a few years back on instructions from the Government. The primary reason at the time was that the GRO had themselves comissioned the indexing and digitising of their records but unfortunately the project was mothballed when only part completed due to funds running out.

On a point of order, according assertions made by GR management on these boards, GR do hold their own transcription records independent of FTM but in some instances originally shared the same data source.

Thank you for the helpful reply DetEcTive XX

Re the 1921 census

The government rejected the petition [for an early release] saying that the privacy of the original partakers must be respected, and that the assurances given to them (i.e. that the information would not be released for 100 years) must be respected.
http://www.1901census.com/1921-census/

In my opinion, as the gro have no intention of releasing later BMD indexes on microfilm, Brightsolid - GR's holding company - will have to invest heavily in copying and then arranging for them to be transcribed. We tend to find that records are released on GR's sister company FindMyPast before being linked to the record search here. GR don't hold any records of their own - they use the same database as FMP

Should you want an answer from GR, then rather than wait for them to spot this thread, send them an email via
[email protected]

Do we have any update from Genes? It is their business that will suffer if further records are not available. What will happen to the 1921 Census?