Genealogy Chat

Hello All,
I have already done the family tree for my maternal side of the family, and had my grandmother, Caroline Irwin b. 1880c, as the daughter of John Irwin, (sometimes known as Angelo John) and Caroline nee Wheeler.

Just recently, though, I found a record which states that on her marriage cert, when she married Frederick Willliam Tutty, this being definitely correct, and then she gave her father's name as Charles.
(from the 1911 census, she was born in Bethnal Green) This was after she had married.in 1905

I have tried to find a daughter, to a Charles Irwin, in Bethnal Green, but cannot find her.

On the marriage record the two witnesses were R. Irwin and E Irwin. John and Caroline had two children, Robert, and Ethel Irwin. Also there was a Charles Irwin, who was another child of theirs.

Could it be that the father's name was written down wrong, and if so, why

Can anyone find a Caroline Irwin dau of a Charles Irwin, who was born in Bethnal Green.

I DO HAVE all the records for Caroline as a daughter of John and Caroline and the marriage record, when she married Frederick Tutty, so don't need those, thank you.

Your opinion would be appreciated, thank you very much.

On the marriage record, Frederick' father is listed as John. There is a possibility that the Curate mixed up the names?

Hello
Thank you for replying. The father of Frederick Tutty was actually a John Tutty, as have the birth record for him.

poppy girl, i just wonder if the same has happened on the marriage cert you have as happened on one of my ancestors certs , for some reason, and I don't know if that was because the bride's father could not be there, the 'father's name was actually her brother.

Caroline had a brother Charles...so that might make sense?

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Charles William Irwin
Name: Charles William Irwin
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 29 Apr 1893
Father's Name: John Irwin
Mother's name: Caroline Irwin
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St Jude
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

The brother Charles would only have been 12yrs at the time of the marriage in 1905

Yes, I had thought that it could be the brother but can't even find him, later on so not sure if he actually died, or not.

ah good point Gins lol, I hadn't think about his age!

Oooh Rosie

Just checked that Baptism for Charles and his actual DOB is April 11th 1883

Just thought that I should add, that on the marriage cert for caroline, I think I am right in saying she is done as being 22 yrs old.On the 1911 census 27 yrs old, making her born around 1883-1884, I know these two to be correct, but on the 1891 census,if she was John and Caroline's daughter then she is down as being 10 years old, making her born 1881
With the actual birth date of Charles, this could be him, then, as he would be around 22 at them time of Caroline's marriage in 1905

Confusing, what's the chance of two fathers having the name Angelo?



England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975


Name:Caroline Agnes Irwin

Gender:Female

Baptism Date:17 Feb 1880

Baptism Place:St. Peter's Church, Westminster, Middlesex, England

Father:
Thomas Angelo Irwin

Mother:
Lucy Frances

FHL Film Number:1468963

Reference ID:P.57 No.453

Hi, yes I saw that one. I couldn't find a connection though.

These look like the parents of that baptism I posted


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973


Name:Thomas Angelo Irwin

Gender:Male

Age:34

Birth Date:1845

Marriage Date:22 Apr 1879

Marriage Place:Belper, Derbyshire, England

Father:
Thomas Somerville Irwin

Spouse:
Lucy Frances Strutt

FHL Film Number:2082647

Reference ID:item 7 p 80

-----------------------------------------


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name:Thomas Angelo Irwin

Probate Date:22 Nov 1913

Death Date:6 Aug 1913

Death Place:Bath, Somerset, England

Registry:Bristol


To: Henry Dillon Irwin £1990 17s 8d

thank you Gins, don't think he is connected to my family

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name:Lucy Frances Irwin

Probate Date:8 May 1915

Death Date:25 Nov 1914

Death Place:Cumberland, England

Registry:London, England

To: George Herbert Strutt & Henry Dillon Irwin & John Hunter £11101 13s 4d

Hi

Yes, just trying to get to the of bottom of it!

Can't see a birth for 'your' Caroline

No, just not sure which year she was born, as I oreviously said they give 1881 if she is John and Caroline's dau but the 1911 census and her marriage record suggests she was born around 1883-1884. I know that they normally round the age off but that wouldn't apply to the 1881 census if she wasn't born until 1883

Very confusing, I can't fathom this one out as I can't find a birth either

just adding this

1901 England Census about Caroline Irwin
Name: Caroline Irwin
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Pauper Patient (Pauper)
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Bethnal Green, London, England
Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green, East
ED, institution, or vessel: Bethnal Green Infirmary
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 296
Folio: 145
Page Number: 10
Household schedule number: 1

Caroline senior and Ethel? It is Irwin on image.

1901 England Census about Caroline Sewin
Name: Caroline Sewin
[Caroline Irwin]
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Bethnal Green, London, England
Civil Parish: Stedham
Ecclesiastical parish: Stedham St James
Town: Stedham
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Midhurst
Sub-registration district: Harting
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 974
Folio: 98
Page Number: 8
Household schedule number: 42
Household Members:
Name Age
Annie G Cawker 30
Franc S Appleyard 18
Edith Pile 14
Alfred Cook 14
Thomas Seabrooke 12
Maud Strickland 11
Feslie Legg 10
Jane Smith 4
Maurice W Francombe 4
Edmund C Cherry 5
George E L Cherry 2
Timothy Maccarthy 2
Caroline Sewin 57 <<<<<<<<<<< married
Ethel M Sewin 13<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ages are only rounded off on the 1841 census, that said, many didn't know when they were they born so the census info is frequently wrong in respect of age

I wonder what happened to Annie?

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Annie Ellen Irwin
Name: Annie Ellen Irwin
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 3 Jan 1886
Father's Name: John Irwin
Mother's name: Caroline Irwin
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St Jude
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers