Genealogy Chat

Hi Elizabeth,

I wonder if you have info on the HOLLAND family in the Midlands? I have found other HOLLAND family but cannot link my ancestor to them.

My gt grandfather was George Henry HOLLAND, baptised June 1861 at Blackfordby leics. His baptism cert shows his father as Henry HOLLAND, travelling brazier and mother as Sarah. I've been unable to find Henry or Sarah Holland in any census and George only appears from 1881 living in Rugeley, Staffs. George's marriage cert shows his father, Henry as a cutler. I'm pretty sure my ancestor is related to the other HOLLANDS in the area and did find a newspaper account of 2 gipsy brothers begging and would have been around their age (about 10 at the time) They were George and Mark Holland whose father, Henry HOLLAND was shown as a gipsy hawker. I have managed to trace Mark HOLLAND who was born in Stapenhill, Derbyshire, but again, no parents for him and nothing to connect him to my gt grandfather.

Any help would be appreciated, but there's no hurry, I've been trying to solve this for years now!!

Only just found this topic. Lee family of Leicester/Leicestershire. William Lee was a boxing champ for the Army I believe in the 2nd WW. Any help appreciated. :-)

:-D :-D
Hi Annx
Just to throw a spanner into the works
looking at the database there is a George Henry Holland who was christened 23rd June 1861 at Blackfordby in Leicester with parents listed has Henry Holland a travelling brazier and wife Sarah-the database also states that Henry was also a cutler and was born in the Somerset/Devon area??? :-S

Trudy :-) :-) :-)cannot find a Romany connection
this is the line of descent for Hyam Lee
William Alfred Lee b 1825 @West Ham,occupation -engineer-married Sarah b Stratford 1825
children of the above
1/Elizabeth b Stratford 1847
2William b Stratford 1850
3/George b Stratford 1855
4/Charlotte b Stratford 1856
5/Alfred b Stratford 1862-married Amelia b Aldgate,London1862,Alfred`s occupation in 1891 machinist 1901builders labourer ( HYAM`S parents)
----children of Alfred and Amelia
1/Alfred b March 1881 Stratford(freebmd)
2/Hyam b 1884 Stratford Essex(freebmd)
3/Harriette b Stratford 1888-died before 1911(bmd)
4/Robert b Stratford 1890(bmd)
5/Thomas b Stratford 1893(bmd)
6/Frank b Dec 1896 Stratford(bmd)
7/Leonard
and according to 1911 census there must have been 3 more children has it states married 30 yrs 10 children born 5 still alive
---------------------------
Hyam Lee was admitted to trade in 1904 according to the trade union members registration transcriptions
member of the trade union of Boiler Makers and Iron Ship Builders @ London branch 12
----------------------
ref to marriage of Hyam at West Ham in 4 quarter 1918 vol 4A P322 to Myrtle P Maunders(with regards to Myrtle I have checked worldwide for a birth from the years 1880 to 1890 with no success so it is possible that Myrtle may have been married before(need to order Hyams marriage cert)nor can I find any children relating to Hyam and Myrtle.
Hyam died according to records June 1936 at Essex SW vol 4A p 265
--------------------------
census
1861 @ 7 Harrow St parish of All Saints West Ham(can be found William ,Sarah and family)
1911 @186 High St Stratford can be found Alfred and Amelia and their family
hope this helps
Liz

Wow thank you elizabeth your brilliant for taking the time to look for me

Thank you
Trudy :-)

Liz any chance you could help me with this family of Allen's

1851- Overton Hampshire
Julia Allen 34y traveller born London
John Allen 12y --- " ---- " ---High Wycombe Bucks
Margaret Allen 6y " --------" Cheltenham Glous.
Julia Allen 1y -----" ---------" Bollington Ches.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1861 - Saffron Walden Essex.
Julia Allen wd.44y Traveller born India
Julia Allen 10y ------ " --------- " --- " ---

not found these 2 after this

think Margaret is in Kent born Cheltenham

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1881 -- Hastings Sussex.
William Sullivan 36y --------------------- born Deptford Kent
Margaret Sullivan 37y ---------------------- " -- Cheltenham
Edward Sullivan 30y brother ------------- " -- Deptford Kent
Amelia Barrett 11y --------------------------- " -- Plymouth Devon

not found the brothers family

no marriage for William and Margaret
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1891 -- Hastings Sussex

William Sullivan 45y China Riveter -- Deptford Kent
Margaret Sullivan 49y --------------------- Cheltenham
Lizzie [Elizabeth] Sullivan 6y ------------ Hastings
Julia Sullivan 1y ---------------------------- Hastings
Lillie Freeman 13y
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

William Sullivan is in the local workhouse died 1922 74y

1911 -- Hastings Sussex
Margaret Sullivan 68y ------------------ Barbados India -- this threw me - where to -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------search ?
Julia Mary Sullivan 21y ---------- Hastings
Alfred Prior / Hunt 22y ------------- " ------ this is who Julia Married.

could the Allen family have come from Barbados, West Indies ???

Mavis

Trudy
You are more than welcome
Liz

Thank you Elizabeth, now that is interesting that Henry HOLLAND was born in the southwest. I have seen that there are gipsy HOLLAND families there in censuses and to be honest they seem to be just as troublesome to the law there as those in the midlands so it wouldn't surprise me to find they are connected.

If you don't mind me asking where would information like where Henry was born come from on the database?

:-D :-D for Mavis
the only thing that I have in connection with the Sullivan family is
-Edward Sullivan`s army records- if you do not have them let me know and I can P.m them to you
the information does give details of where he was born and of course that could be the same place has his brother was born
Liz

Thank you Liz -- found Edward's army records

would have been nice for some thing on the Allens - its great
what you do find

Mavis :-) :-)

Hi Elizabeth I need your help in tracing my ancestors my grandad was Charles frederick richardson born Mitcham 1909 and died in Bermondsey 1988 and he's father was also called Charles richardson born 1882 died in 1918 married to an Elizabeth Cook born 1884not too sure if they were married as she is down as a spinster in her second marriage to Walter Alfred hummerston now my grandad always said his family were travellers from Mitcham and that he's dad or grandad had a massive funeral on Mitcham common and travellers from all over attended he's funeral this is where I need your help as I can't go further up my tree I have added a john richardson has my grandads grandad In my family tree but I'm not too sure if this is right it seems very random a john in the family as Charles was handed down through the generations
Thank you

hi elizabeth , do you have any morrison, family on your list , mine are isaac and william both baptised on same day 25 april 1775 at st marys carlise parents william morrison & elizabeth of catcoats , potter , i have a report from carlise archive that these were possably a romany traveling family , anything on morrison romany family would be a help thanks

:-D :-D ~~~~for MICHELLE
I think that looking at Charles Richards/Elizabeth Cook -that they were not married,but it seems that Elizabeth gave birth in 1901 at Balham to Elizabeth Cook =anyway this is what I have and I hope it helps a little bit
Charles Richardson b 1885,Fulham -died Mitcham 1919
Elizabeth Cook born Clapham 1884
1911 census postal address 97 Fortescue Rd ,Merton -Scullery landing
Charles Richardson.....h.........b..1885...@Fulham ........builder
Elizabeth(Cook).............w.........b..1884...@Clapham
Elizabeth Cook...............d.........b..1901....@Balham
Jack Richardson............s.........b..1905...@Clapham
Mary Richardson............d.........b..1907...@ Clapham
CHARLES RICHARDSON..s...b..1909..@Mitcham
Frank Richardson.........s......b...1910
~~~~~~Elizabeth Cook did marry a Walter Alfred Hummerston and went onto have 6 more children~~~~~~~~~~
~~CHARLES RICHARDSON born 1909 Mitcham died Bermondsey 1968,he married Eileen Elizabeth Mary Allen in 1933 at Camberwell
Eillen was born Camberwell 29/5/1914--id1639,Eillen died 1st quarter in 2002 in the district of Bromley A39 071
take care
Liz

Hi Elizabeth, I have found that some of my maternal family from Kent were hawkers/Romany folk.

The name I am particularly interested in is Cork(e) around the St. Mary Cray area. I understand there used to be a campsite called 'Corke's Meadow' there. and have often wondered if there was a connection.

The other names associated with the Corkes, were Cooley and Parris.

Any ideas or help would be much appreciated. Thank you. x

:-D :-D for CYNTHIA
You are correct there was a campsite at St Marys Cray,Kent(Corkes Meadow/Pit)
it was at Leesons Hill on the Sevenoaks Rd,next to the gas works(I remember it well has many of my kin wintered there)
It is no longer there and is in fact now built on.But I am sorry I do not know who owned it but the local area council or even the reference library will have those details.
I remember being told about the German bomb that exploded at the camp4/11/1940,and the archive tells me that Wainess Bignell was killed and a lot of people injured
Should you need help in looking at a specific person please list details

Thank you very much Elizabeth.

My whole Cork(e) family is missing in the 1851 census and I just wonder if it is possible that they were on that site.

The main names are:

Sarah Cork(e) b.c 1797 - 1879

Her son and daughter in law:

Richard Cork(e) b. 1812 in Stone, Kent. Died 1891

Jane Cork(e) nee Cooley b. 1820 in Chertsey, Surrey. Died 1867

Their children:
Sarah Cooley 1837 –
Jane Cork 1842 –
Richard Cork 1842 – 1896
Daniel Cork 1845 – 1932
James Cork 1848 – 1936
Stephen Cork 1851 – 1919

After 1851
Eliza Cork 1853 – 1944
Alice Cork 1856 – 1876
Elizabeth Cork1859 –
Mary Ann (Polly) Cork 1860 –


Cx

:-D :-D for Cynthia
children of
Richard Cork b 1812 died 1891in 3rd quarter@Sevenoaks,Kent vol 2A pg32 & wife Jane nee Cooley
1/Sarah Jane Cooley(Cork) born 1837,her baptism is recorded in the Thames and Medway Baptism records for the county of Kent.
Sarah married 1858 to Thomas Mills @ Maidstone,Kent-ref 2A 690
she is not in the 1861,so it may be safe to assume that she died between 1858-1861 (has Thomas is recorded in the later census but has remarried.)
2/Jane Cork born 1842 in 4th quarter in the district of Malling,Kent-ref volume V p 343,Jane married George Curtis in 1865 in district of Canterbury ref-vol 2A pg 1202
3/James Cork-death recorded has 1936 ,1st quarter,in the district of Kent -ref vol 2A pg 1220
4/Stephen Cork -b1851,1st quarter of 1878 @ Bromley he married Emily Emery-ref 2A pg 433 Emily was born St Mary Cray in 1848
The census has them with son William at St Paul Cray and in 1901/11 they are at 69 Hearns Rd St Paul Cray
=========================
I only have Mary Ann(Polly) birth -Mary Ann Cork born 3rd quarter 1861 in district of Bromley -ref 2A pg 244
======================================
Eliza Cork b 1853,it looks like she is with her relatives in the 1861 @55 London Rd ,Hambledown Kent
=====================================
Alice Cork born 1856, baptism is recorded has 12/10/1856 @Seal ,Kent,she died Malling 1876
====================================
Daniel Cork b 1845 ,died aged 88yrs in district of Sheppey,Kent-ref vol 2A pg 1297,married Olive Martin in 1870 @ Maidstone Kent -ref vol 2a pg 854,Olive died 3rd quarter 1887 aged 40 district of Maidstone,Kent
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1871 census= Richard is with son Stephen and his family @74 Tower Hill ,Offham,Mallingham,Kent -ref RG10 folio12 pg 16
--also on the same page is Daniel and wife Olive at number 75
1891census= Richard b 1812 is @Victory Yard,Sunridge,Kent,still with Stephen -ref RG12 folio47 pg 2
1911census=Stephen Cork and wife Emily and family are at Hearns Rd,St Paul Cray ,have been married 33yr
--with regards to the surname Parris the 1891 has a Thomas Parris aged 40 b Northam wife Mary aged 30 and son Thomas Henry Parris aged 7 b St Pauls Cray
(hope that this helps you to get a little further)
Liz

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-
JUST A LITTLE INFO ON
The St Mary Cray area of Kent
Corkes Meadow also known has Corkes Pit was a wintering stopping ground (atchin tan) and at any one time up to 300 people could be resident there-Corkes Meadow/pit is no longer there but it was Sevenoaks way near to the gas works.
many old Romany family names could be found living there such has
Arnold-Baker-Ball-Brazil-Buckley-Chapman-Clark-Cork(e)-Cooley-Driscol(l)-Elliot-Friend-french-Hughes-Jackson-Jones-Lee-Love-Mead-Marley-Parris-Price-Ripley-Roberts-Rutherford-Saunder-Scamp-Smith-Stanley
Liz

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3


Thank you so much for your help Liz - very useful indeed. I see that the Cork(e)/Cooley families were mentioned in the history of Corkes Meadow. I suppose part of me wonders if it was named after any of my lot but I guess I may never know.

I really appreciate your time. Thanks again. <3 :-D

Hi Elizabeth

I hope you can help. I am trying to trace a romany gypsy family who were based in Hackney and the East end during the 1800s

My great great grandad was a man called Zachariah king born in 1975? Does in 1936
He was married to Alice weeks who married my great grandfather Henry Gillet. Their daughter Dora in my grandmother

I believe that Zachariah has 4 siblings. Annie, John. Mary Ann and George.

His father was James g king and his mother was Eliza.

I would love if you have information regarding this side of the family or are able to point me in the right direction as I am drawing a blank

Thank you