Genealogy Chat

The marriage iin Shoreditch is possible this man

Births Dec 1856
Bains James Alexander S.Shields 10a 459

for him to be the same man who married Jane Elizabeth Nicholson in 1867 would mean he married age 11 years old

I suspect its the reason Reggie asked about ages given for him on the marriage cert

Your man (1867 marriage) may have not had his birth registered or was born before civil registration

Roy

Edit, I see the thread has moved on since i started looking :-S

????
image on findmypast.co.uk.

Fernando Baily, "England and Wales Census, 1891"
Name: Fernando Baily
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1891
Gender: Male
Age: 12
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Birthplace: Marylebone, London
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Hackney
Sub-District: West Hackney
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Pauls Haggerston
Parish: Hackney
County: London, Middlesex

????

Marriages Jun 1885 (>99%)
BAINS Eliza Shoreditch 1c 151
MEEKING Adah Shoreditch 1c 151
NIGHTINGALE Edmund Shoreditch 1c 151
Staples Grant Shoreditch 1c 151

safe,

Thanks for that, but I have all information for Fernando, it is really his father that is the mystery. Only known information I have is his name on a marriage cert.

Porkie Pie, never considered the James b. 1856, just been checking but again cannot find him on any census. Think next move is to get his birth cert. to see if it throws any light on the matter.

Carol

Yes Safc, that is her remarriage.

Carol

The image for James Baines and Eliza Holland's marriage is on Ancestry. Both ages given as full; James - widower, Mariner, father John Alexander Bains, ship builder.

Ancestry also has Master's Certs for a James Alexander Baines:

DOB 16th November 1842 South Shields; the last date mentioned is 1870 "Passed for Steam".

There are 3 signatures on the Master's Certs and although none of them are in full as the one on the marriage cert is, they do look very similar. What do others think?

A tree on Ancestry has an image of the 1901 Canadian census for Jas A Baines, DOB 16th November 1842, Methodist, Farm Labourer.

This tree gives his father as Alexander Baines, Master Mariner.

James Alex Bains, "England and Wales Census, 1851"
Name: James Alex Bains
Age: 8
Gender: Male
Birthplace: Shields, Durham
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Schedule Type: Household

Potty,

Yes have seen the Certs. not sure what you mean, James does not sign them.

The Canadian census is for the James Bains b.South Shields 1842 who emigrated 1891.

That is the correct details for my great grandparents marriage.

Carol

The address on the Master's Cert dated 1862 is East Saville St, Sth Shields; in the 1861 Mary Ann Baines is living at 23 East Saville St and she is on the 1851 with husband Alexander and son James A:


Name:Maryann Bains
Age:32
Estimated birth year:abt 1819
Relation:Wife
Spouse's Name:Alexander Bains - master mariner
Where born:Shields, Durham, England

Alexander Bains 33
Maryann Bains 32
James Alex Bains 8
Joseph Gray Bains 3
Thos Gray Bains 3 Mo

Alexander Bains, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "
Name: Alexander Bains
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Gray
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 02 Feb 1842
Event Place: St. Hilda'S Church, South Shields, Durham, England
Father's Name: James Bains
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Joseph Gray
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00872-6
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1894150
Reference ID: Img. 291 352 p. 176

Carol, James signed 4 of the Master's certs and the image on Ancestry is of the Parish Record of his marriage to Eliza Holland, so he would have signed that. I am pretty sure the signatures are for the same man.

Marriages Mar 1842 (>99%)
BAINS Alexander S Shields 24 136 xxxx
DELANEY Daniel S Shields 24 136
GRAY Mary Ann South Shields 24 136 xxxx
HUMPHREYS William S Shields 24 136
PAUL James S Shields 24 136
SIMPSON Margaret Ann S Shields 24 136
WATSON Isabella S Shields 24 136

Right so it looks like this.

James Alexander Bains b. 1842 South Shields father Alexander Bains mother Mary Ann. Married Jane Elizabeth Nicholson in Newcastle 1867.

They had 3 children, Ethel b.1870 James Alexander b.1871 and Annie b.1873.
Ethel died in 1990 and they emigrated in 1891 to Canada.

The records are there for James birth, marriage, on 1851, 1871, 1881, 1891

All I have for my James Alexander Bains is a marriage cert. If I could find him on just one census then I would know it was not the James above. So need to find out more for James b.1857 that Porkie Pie suggested.

Unfortunately I have no relatives left who I can ask, only the story my mother relayed, but being young did not ask questions.

She always told me he was quite old when he married, he was Spanish, could speak several languages, and that he died and did not see her dad.

Always remember when I was about 6 my first encounter with family history when my parents took me to Somerset House, can still remember to this day when they were looking through those big books. The week before this happened, late one night my Aunt Alice who was Jame's daughter knocking on our door, lots of shouting and she said "how dare you say we are a load of little b--tards" obviously there must have been something odd going on, when I started doing family history, it was obvious mother was looking for the marriage cert.

Carol

James Alexander Baines, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"
Name: James Alexander Baines
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 19 Nov 1858
Christening Place: St. Hildas, South Shields, Durham, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Baines
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Barbara Baines
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01159-0
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1894145
Reference ID: yrs 1854-1862 p 233

I can't find the James b1856 on any census and he would only have been 19 in 1875, yet on the marriage is shown as full age and a widower. There is this death in 1878 but the age of death is missing from the image:


Name:
James Alexander Bains

Date of Registration:
Jul-Aug-Sep 1878

Registration district:
South Shields

Inferred County:
Durham

Volume:
10a

Page:
478

Carol, have you compared those signatures yet? If you don't have access to the images, let me know and I will send them to you.

Can anybody else please look at them?

Hi Potty,

Back in half hour collecting grandson :-D

The 1878 death is age 0

It is not clear on the image on freebmds due to a shadow but their is a correction and on close inspection it does look like age 0

Deaths Sep 1878
BAINS James Alexander 0 S. Shields 10a 478
BAINS James Alexander * S. Shields 10a 478

And his birth
Births Sep 1878
Bains James Alexander S. Shields 10a 777

Roy

Patty,

I have seen 2 copies of the Masters Certs. on a Tree on Ancestry but don't know how to find them.

Found the birth of a Leanora Bains b.1883 so would appear he was still alive then Roy.

Carol