Genealogy Chat

Thanks KenSE and Gwyn for your input both are most interesting

I searched for years for the birth registration c. 1882 of a child brought up as Florence SKERRETT and shown with her family in Wales in 1891 and as a servant to a clergyman in North Wales in 1901.
Knowing that her 'parents' as shown on 1891 were not married until 1885, I thought she must have been a daughter born to the wife before marriage, but still nothing found.

Eventually I found her registered as Florence WAGSTAFF, which was also the name in which she married in 1902, father unknown.

Her birth certificate tells a different story.
Her birth was indexed in her mother's surname, as she was illegitimate, but the mother died in childbirth or soon after and the father Edward SKERRETT registered the birth and is shown as the informant,(father) although columns 4 and 6 are left blank, as the pair were not married.


Strange that she lived with Edward for many years and yet he wasn't named at her marriage..................

..........................................................................................................................................
I think if a birth certificate is later ammended, then the details, date and reason for ammendment would probably be shown at the far right-hand side of the certificate.
I have a birth certificate for a 'Girl' born 1888, whose certificate was ammended in 1901 to read that 'she' was in fact a boy.

Gwyn

I have a simillar sort of occurrence in my tree.

In this case, pre 1875, the illegitimate child has a father named and her birth is indexed twice i.e. under both surnames.

When she gets married there is no father on the certificate obtained from the GRO. However in the parish register the name of the father (as included on the birth certificate) is there, togerther with his occupation (Gentleman) but the name and occupation have been crossed out.

So I don't know whether that was a made up name or he really was the father.

The mother was one of the witnesses of the marriage, so maybe she came clean at the last minute.

Thanks, nameslessone. Yes, it's the father's name that is asked first so the Registrar must have thought the mother was married.

Little did the Registrar know that he would be helping to solve a mystery over a 130 years later as the child's Marriage Certificate doesn't name a father!

Just goes to prove that you should never assume that when a child is illegitimate there will be nothing mentioned as to who the father is on a Birth Certificate! I know it doesn't happen very often but when it does.....WOW!

Thanks, Chris. I have all the censuses. It's the family of Aaron Vaughan. I think we have narrowed it down to the birth registered in Dec Qtr 1884 as the Baptism for that Herbert was in Holy Trinity the same Civil Parish as the 1901 census for Aaron Vaughan's family. Also, the baptism for Charlotte was in Holy Trinity

Thanks for all your help....

When I rang the registry Office ( see 4th 14.55) the person on the other end did not need to look at their records - my description of the certificate meant she knew exactly what had happened

Mother asked for fathers name - gave it. Registrar assumed they were married and started to write the mothers surname same as father - obviously mother then pointed out hers was different as they weren't married so he ruled out the fathers name and the mistake on the mothers name .

I couldn't remember the significance of the numbers but Kathleen Bells comments sound familiar. It won't help Londonbelle at all to see the Registrars notebook - it is just an 'accounting' number.

The mother in Londonbelles case told the truth about the fathers name before stating they were not married OR she named an innocent party before stating they were not married - take your choice. I'd just be grateful a father was named.

1891
VAUGHAN, Aaron Head Married M 38 1853 Farm Laborer
Ely, Cambridgeshire
VAUGHAN, Mary J Wife Married F 31 1860
Ely, Cambridgeshire
VAUGHAN, Charlotte Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar
Ely, Cambridgeshire
VAUGHAN, Herbert Son M 6 1885 Scholar
Ely, Cambridgeshire
CROSS, William Nephew M 5 1886 Scholar
Ely, Cambridgeshire
Piece: 1298
Folio: 45
Page: 18
Registration District: Ely
Civil Parish: Holy Trinity
Municipal Borough:
Address: Springhead Lane, Holy Trinity, Ely
County: Cambridgeshire


Marriages Dec 1884 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Cross Mary Jane Ely 3b 1148
VAUGHAN Aaron Ely 3b 1148

1891
CROSS, George Head Married M 38 1853 Agricultural Labourer
Ely, Cambridgeshire
CROSS, Mary Wife Married F 33 1858
Soham, Cambridgeshire
CROSS, Arthur Son Single M 12 1879 Scholar
Ely, Cambridgeshire
CROSS, Hannah Daughter Single F 10 1881 Scholar
Ely, Cambridgeshire
CROSS, Herbert Son Single M 8 1883 Scholar
Ely, Cambridgeshire
CROSS, Emily Daughter Single F 5 1886 Scholar
Ely, Cambridgeshire
CROSS, Leonard J Son M 2 1889
Ely, Cambridgeshire
OKEY, Thomas Father In Law Widower M 77 1814
Ely, Cambridgeshire
Piece: 1298
Folio: 143
Page: 31
Registration District: Ely
Civil Parish: Ely St Mary
Municipal Borough:
Address: Cow Lane, Ely St Mary, Ely
County: Cambridgeshire

1901
VAUGHAN, Aaron Head Married M 49 1852 Bricklayers Labourer
Ely, Cambridgeshire
VAUGHAN, Mary J Wife Married F 43 1858
Ely, Cambridgeshire
CROSS, Herbert Son M 16 1885 Farm Labourer
Ely, Cambridgeshire
VAUGHAN, Bertha A A Daughter F 8 1893
Ely, Cambridgeshire
VAUGHAN, John Son M 6 1895
Ely, Cambridgeshire
Piece: 1545
Folio: 43
Page: 18
Registration District: Ely
Civil Parish: Ely Trinity (Isle of Ely)
Municipal Borough:
Address: Spring Head Lane, Ely Trinity (Isle Of Ely), The City Of Ely
County: Cambridgeshire

(either of above?)

Chris :)

I thought the birth registered in Mar 1884 might have been born in 1883; that could help in narrowing down which one it is!

Thanks for trying Chris, much appreciated

Baptisms. One in 1883, Ely St. Mary, Other 1884, Ely Holy Trinity.

(FMP hasn't got this far yet, don't think!)

Chris :)


Births Mar 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------
Cross Herbert Ely 3b 565


Births Dec 1884 (>99%)
---------------------------------------
Cross Herbert Ely 3b 559

Thanks for trying, Chris

Could I be cheeky and ask if you can find Herbert Cross in 1884 again Ely. There are two registered that year but don't want to send off for the wrong Birth Certificate.

Thanks in advance

Cambridgeshire Baptism Index has an entry, 1880 Charlotte Cross Ely. Holy Trinity.

(looking on FMP to get the Parish details, but not there)

Sorry about that.

Chris :)

Her name was Charlotte Cross born 12 May 1880 Ely, Cambs., Chris

What was the name?...

Chris :)

I've looked on FreeReg but nothing there :-(

Anything Baptism wise?, see some interesting things written sometimes!.

Chris :)

Many thanks for that info, Roy

The strange thing is that only the mother has signed as the informant in Column 7.

The father's name, which is crossed out, is in Column 4 and Column 6 is blank.

Who signed as informant, Did both mum and dad sign as informant?

(1) Where the parents were married to one another, fathers details must be entered in the register and only one parent will sign the register (or some other informant)

(2) Where the parents were not married to one another there will be blanks in Column 4 (fathers name) and Column 6 (his occupation).

This situation lasted until the Registration Act of 1875 where the instruction read "The putative father of an illegitimate child cannot be required as father to give information respecting the birth. The name, surname and occupation of the putative father of an illegitimate child must not be entered except at the joint request of the father and mother; in which case both the father and mother must sign the entry as informants". There are therefore 3 kinds of entry after this Act:



(3) Where the parents are not married to one another but both attended the register office together, fathers details are entered in Column 4 and Column 6 and both parents sign. Looked at a different way - if both parents have signed in Column 7 regardless of what names they are using then the parents were not married to one another at the time of the birth of the child.

This situation lasted until 1953 when the same 3 entries could still be made but there were other ways in which father when not married to mother could be included in the entry without being present to sign but I don't think this later period will be of interest to most family historians so I haven't included it. If a mother was widowed before the birth of her legitimate baby the entry will show (deceased) after fathers name


From http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/births.htm#COL4

Roy

Good point, mgnv. Suppose really we'd need to see that book/log that Kath refers to see why the amendment was made.

Thanks for your feedback....

I suppose it could be the other way round. The unwed mother rego'ed the birth alone, so the registrar put a line thru the father's name box, as he's supposed to do, and then the mum persuaded the dad to add his name, so they came in together to amend the cert. Forms were made available at some point to facilitate this name-adding for remotely located dads.

Thanks, Kath. Yes, when I saw the Certificate I just said to myself "well I never!" I really didn't expect to see anything for the father such a surprise!

Thanks for clarifying the amendment....that's great!