Genealogy Chat

You would look on the American census records, and on travel to America.....

Francis was American...theres a chance they moved to the US....
we can see them in the 1861 census and then I think they drop out of the UK census with no close matching death registrations on yorkshirebmd or the freebmd websites

if the above is true where on earth would I even start to find them in the US???

Had a hopeful thought.....maybe Catharine's second marriage to Francis Mcguire on the 06/10/1857 in Scarborough will open some more doors to a route back to County Mayo Ireland.

The certificate confirms Catharine's father is called Michael Freney.

Did Michael move at the time of the famine too? Is there a death for him in the Scarborough area?
I have a copy this marriage certificate but when it is registered is there a record of any other details?
Where did Catharine die? Would a death certificate/record confirm her place of birth?

many thanks in advance

Hi Mark
If you follow your link it tells you which parts survived and where they are.
There appear to be no surviving records for County Mayo.

Earliest census for England, Wales & Scotland is 1841 (there were some before this but they were only headcounts); the only full Irish ones surviving are 1901 and 1911. There is a partial one for 1841/51 but this is only for Co Antrim. I have never been able to find any of the "fragments" online.

Does anybody know if the remaining fragments of the Irish 1821, 1831 and 1841 census are online? Or is it a trip to Dublin....Fairly confident that the area is Killasser! County Mayo.


19th-century census substitutes

Because virtually all of Ireland's 19th century census records were destroyed, family historians must instead rely on other genealogical sources for that period. These are collectively known as 'census substitutes'.The most useful are land records (especially Griffith's Valuation), religious censuses, school registers, old-age pension applications and other miscellaneous lists of names such as trade directories.Before you start looking into those alternatives, though, take a look to see if any of the fragments of Ireland's earliest censuses are worth pursuing. Their potential value will depend largely on whether or not you know your ancestors' place of origin.See the links in the Related Pages box, top right.- See more at: http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Irish-census.html#sthash.TpnLbN2R.dpuf

What date is the earliest census in England and Ireland?

Thank you

Ok thank you. ?.
is there a record of registered people in the irish workhouses?

there are no passenger lists from Ireland to England

Many people myself included wish there were :-)

What about ship records? So we can see the family leaving Ireland...which website would be best to see this?

Thanks

Dear Mr.Rowley,
Thank you for your e-mail.
The townland is spelt by the Ordnance Survey of Ireland as Doonty, and it is located in the north of the parish of Killasser, approximately 3 miles east of Foxford and 3 miles north east of Swinford.
The location can be viewed on the Ordnance Survey website here:
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,534757,807462,5,3

and also this...


Dear mark,



I suggest that this townland is Doonty in Killasser Parish. In the Tithe Book for Killasser (1834) it is spelled Doontice see http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=rowley&firstname=&county=Mayo&parish=killasser&townland=&search=Search

this video kinda sums up what I thought it maybe like:

http://www.rte.ie/archives/exhibitions/1030-emigration-once-again/139206-emigration-from-killasser/

interesting that the first burial on there is a Rowley!

Glasgow Lass has just rightfully pointed out that the 4th son is baptised in Grindale as per the record........but this doesn't necessarily mean he was born there, he too, could have been born in Mayo, Ireland. A matching UK birth certificate hasn't yet been found for him. I thought I found one, but it doesn't match.

So, just to recap - the Baptism certificate of John Rowley (4th son) confirms he was baptised in Grindale, East Yorkshire, it also LOOKS like the parents came from Doontice, Killasser, County Mayo.......and given the time of the move its almost certain the move came about because of the potato famine.

I've contacted the parish in Killasser in the hope that they hold some old records, a marriage record/certificate of John Rowley and Catharine Freney would be great.

Hello.......I decend from Patrick the first son......as for John the fourth son born Grindale I can send you the records I have

Mark,
On an earlier part of this thread, you said that Catherine Rowley widow, married Francis McGuire in 1857 and disappeared.
Son John was baptised in Grinsdale... but was he born there?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Francis McGuire
Name: Francis McGuire
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1857***
Registration District: Scarborough
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume Number: 9d
Page Number: 601
Records on Page:
Name
Eleanor Hood
*****Francis McGuire
*****Catherine Rowley
William Luke Lines Webster

Based on the 1861 census, Catherine, had 2 more Rowley children born after her husband's death and before her 2nd marriage
Daughter Mary Rowley in 1853 and son James Rowley in 1857 both born Scarborough.



1861 England Census about Catherine Maguire
Name: Catherine Maguire
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Francis Maguire
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Scarborough
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Scarborough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration District: Scarborough
Sub-registration District: Scarborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 184
Piece: 3619
Folio: 67
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Maguire 33 Born United States. British Subject
Catherine Maguire 34
John Roweby 14 Born IRELAND
Mary Roweby 7 Born Scarborough
James Roweby 4 Born Scarborough
( names of children on original is: Rowley)

Catherine and Francis both vanish by 1871 when....
Son John seems to be married to Jane.his place of birth still shows as.. IRELAND

Youngest child James Rowley is working on a fishing vessell
Daughter Mary Rowley aged 18 is in domestic service in Scarborough

Which of Catherine's children do you descend from?

I just put into google images "doontice county mayo".....plenty ig images came back......so im confident that place is there today....also theres a local church so ive emailed them for any church records

Just to note re the list of variant names I posted above

the image could easily be read as D.....tees or D....ties

I don't think there's much doubt about it referring to that place, by the best approximation the clergyman could come up with for what the couple was telling him :-)

Hi Eringobragh,
Do you mean the 1850 baptism mentioned on Marks OP?

I had to see before I fully understood what he meant.
The child was born and baptised in Grindale, Yorkshire, England and is annotated with an alternate place of abode... Dunatas, Co Mayo, Ireland.

We expect that the family had very recently arrived in Yorkshire from Co Mayo, with 3, older, Irish born sons
Father John Rowley died around the same time. Mother, Catherine and all 4 sons were in the workhouse at 1851

Does the Baptismal Record not indicate which Church...???

Thomas Rowley born 1820 Ballinrobe Mayo
Served only 1843 to 1844 and discharged due to chronic lung disease.
He was single and gives no parental information.