Genealogy Chat

Hi Sorry Wed is shop day so only just back online.

Yes I looked at the actual census pages for the info for the Sandwell training inst

Possible marriage for Robert and Elizabeth. His occupation is given as shopman but his father is a shoemaker (as is Elizabeth's):

Name:Robert Bell
Age:Minor
Spouse Name:Elizabeth Harris
Record Type:Marriage
Event Date:26 Nov 1854
Parish:Hoxton St John
Borough:Hackney
Father Name:John Bell
Spouse Father Name:Thomas Harris
Register Type:Parish Register

Both give their address as Red Lion Square.

If you look at the image of 1861, as we did, you will see that the birthplace has been mistranscribed.

Just looked up Sandwell training institution and discovered it was an Anglican Educational institute from 1857 to 1897 when it became a Lunatic Asylum.

After that it became a school for the mental defectives. In the 1920's it then became a boys borstal and was later demolished in 1928. Doesn't sound like a place I would have liked to be.

Did you get this info from the 1871 census Shirley.

Thanks.

Still having trouble with this site and some of my replies have not been posted .

Just looked up Sandwell training institution and discovered it was an Anglican Educational institute from 1857 to 1897 when it became a Lunatic Asylum.

After that it became a school for the mental defectives. In the 1920's it then became a boys borstal and was later demolished in 1928. Doesn't sound like a place I would have liked to be.

Did you get this info from the 1871 census Shirley.

Thanks.

Still having trouble with this site and some of my replies have not been posted .

Hi Shirley, I searched for Sandwell training house and found all sorts relating to today. On the information you found it states that Sandwell house is an institution and looks like most of the residents are under 20. Could it have been a school?

Well all that info will keep me busy :-) :-)
I'll try the bmd site

Also how can we be sure Charles was born in Stratford and not Shalford, although it would make much more sense.

it doesn't help, but address of groom is 22 Bentley Road

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name:Robert Bell (Boot finisher)

Age:Full Age

Spouse Name: Mary Ann Sarah Davies

Record Type: Marriage

Event Date: 9 Apr 1882

Parish: Hoxton St John

Borough: Hackney

Father Name: Robert Bell (Boot finisher)

Spouse Father Name: Frederick Davies

Register Type: Parish Register

1881 England Census about Chas. Bell
Name: Chas. Bell
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relationship to Head: Son
Mother: Elizabeth Bell
Gender: Male
Where born: London, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 22 Bentley Rd
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Carpenter
Registration District: Islington
Sub-registration District: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 251
Folio: 138
Page Number: 79
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Bell 45 occ hood maker (dress)
Robt. Bell 24
Chas. Bell 22
Sarah Bell 20
Thos. Bell 19
Jno. Bell 16
.

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 251; Folio: 138; Page: 79; GSU roll: 1341055.



Mum seems undecided on each census where he was born

Well all that info will keep me busy :-) :-)
I'll try the bmd site

Also how can we be sure Charles was born in Stratford and not Shalford, although it would make much more sense.

Maybe
Name: Elizabeth Bell
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England

Address Sandwell Park -Sandwell training house
Civil Parish: West Bromwich
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: West Bromwich
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration District: West Bromwich
Sub-registration District: West Bromwich North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household Schedule Number: 253
Piece: 2986
Folio: 145A
Page Number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
Martha Barton 55
Jane E Adams 36
Emma Rooks 22
Tryphena Gibbens 20
Fanny Redfern 55
Elizabeth Smith 45
Sarah A Fettekin 39
Thomas Fettekin 37
Mary A Horton 21
Elizabeth Bell 15
Emily L C Guthier 11
Mary A Moore 15
Louisa Alder 11
Rebecca Willes 15
Jane Dipple 16
Caroline Hart 15
Mary A J Beckett 13
Mary A C L Gentry 14
Rachel M Unsworth 14
Lucy Shade 15
Harriet Rumble 15
Caroline Thomas 13
Elizabeth A Smith 12
Emily E Hopwood 14
Elizabeth Hoke 13
Ellen D Keene 14
Janet F Allison 9
Frederick T Bracone 16
William R Hillen 16
George N Arnold 14
William Wellis 14
William Double 13
John T Glasgow 13
Waller Perkins 13
George Willis 12
Edward G Veneet 12
Benjamin Denyer 12
George E Perkins 11
Benjamin Gilbert 11
William Gilliver 11
William Davis 11
Abraham Glasgow 9
Richard Eden 20
Elizabeth M Bacon 26
Sarah Moxon 25

Thanks Shirley :-)

posting FMP version

1871

RG number: RG10
Piece: 474
Folio: 7
Page: 7
Reg. District: Bethnal Green
Sub District: Hackney Road
Parish: Bethnal Green
Enum. District: 1
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Old Nichol St, Bethnal Green
County: London, Middlesex

BELL, Elizabeth Head F 36 1835 Middlesex
BELL, Elizabeth Daughter F 15 1856 Middlesex
BELL, Charles Son M 12 1859 Middlesex
BELL, Fanny Daughter F 10 1861 Middlesex
BELL, Thomas Son M 8 1863 Middlesex
BELL, John Son M 6 1865 Middlesex

1871 England Census about Elizabeth Bell
Name: Elizabeth Bell
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Green
Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillip
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration District: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration District: Hackney Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household Schedule Number: 37
Piece: 474
Folio: 7
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Bell 36 widow occ needle woman
Elizabeth Bell 15
Charles Bell 12
Fanny Bell 10
Thomas Bell 8
John Bell 6

You must use freebmd to look for the marriage to Elizabeth

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Once you know her maiden name, you can look for her in 1851

There is a likely one in 1854, which I hope you will be allowed to find for yourself

where have you found Elizabeth Bell as head of the family in 1871? I can't see her.



EDIT - have deleted 1871 census I posted which was incorrect

1861...FMP version

1861 census


Person: BELL, Robert Address: 67, Mary Street, Shoreditch

BELL, Robert Head Married M 28 1833 Shoemaker
Shoreditch, Middlesex VIEW
BELL, Elizabeth Wife F 28 1833
Bethnal Green, Middlesex VIEW
BELL, Elizabeth Daughter F 5 1856
Shoreditch, Middlesex VIEW
BELL, Robert Son M 4 1857
Bethnal Green, Middlesex VIEW
BELL, Charles Son M 3 1858
Shalford, Essex VIEW (Birthplace correction submitted to FMP)
BELL, Sarah Daughter F 1 1860
Shoreditch, Middlesex

..........the other names included by Ancestry are actually people living next door

The census says Elizabeth was born in Bethnal Green

The youngest son Charles was born in Stratford

for information, on the 1861 census Charles Bell, aged 3, was born in Stratford, Essex - it has been mis-transcribed as Shalford, Essex

Our posts must have crossed again.
Thanks for that Shirley. I have something to go on now.
Thanks

Our posts must have crossed again.
Thanks for that Shirley. I have something to go on now.
Thanks