Genealogy Chat

Wow Roots. How do you do it?
I am extremely interested to see that Mum's uncle Will was married to a woman whose father was a pilot, as Mum has mentioned a pilot for Liverpool docks in her ancestry. She has a Whale tooth, which was carved with a picture of a sailor, and a ship by this person. Apparently many sailors did this.
Now all I need to do is enter the info on the tree. I don't suppose there is an easy way to do this.
What a shame that Grandpa Barber's military record has been lost. I would have been interested to see where he was etc.
Thanks again
Liz

Using http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1907
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BARBER William Albert MILLWARD Lilian Ashton under Lyne, St Peter Tameside CE5/7/420

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FMTC-3VR [with image link]

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1854
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BARBER Thomas BRANDON Esther Stayley, St Paul Tameside CE35/2/28

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1856 to 1860
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BARBER Thomas STAFFORD Srah Ann Ashton under Lyne, St Peter Tameside CE5/1/406

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FMTH-DV2


Using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1881
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BARBER William T WILLIAMS Mary A Eccles Parish St Mary's Salford C1/25/326


Using http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Marriage: 26 Sep 1881 St Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancs.
William Thomas Barber - 21 Butcher Bachelor of 136 Oxford Road Manchester
Margaret Ann Williams - 20 Spinster of 12 Victoria Crescent Eccles
Groom's Father: Thomas Barber, Butcher
Bride's Father: John Williams, Pilot
Witness: Samuel Barber; Mary Jane Barber
Married by Banns by: Henry J.B. Armstrong M.A. Incumbancy St. Andrew's Eccles
Register: Marriages 1879 - 1882, Page 163, Entry 326
Source: Manchester Central Library

That's all good then Liz. It looks like the correct deaths on page 1. It also looks like the correct family on the census records (page 1) for Herbert. He was a butcher and so was his father William Thomas and also his grandfather Thomas. He also had a sister Gertrude (see the possible marriage for her at the top of this page).

Only a small percentage of WW1 service records have survived and it looks like your Herbert's are among those that haven't.

I don't think, in fact I am fairly certain that the records for Herbert that are on Ancestry (the man from Oldham who married Ada) are not your grandfather's but for a different Herbert.


The 1891 census shows that Herbert did indeed have a brother William.

Here is brother William in 1911 - he's also a Butcher!

Name: William A Barber
Age in 1911: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Ashton Under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 223 Stockport Road Aus
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Master Butcher
Registration District: Ashton under Lyne
Registration District Number: 468
Sub-registration District: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Piece: 24340
Household Members:
Name Age
William A Barber 26
Linian Barber 25
Herbert Barber 1


Marriages Dec 1907
BARBER William Albert Ashton 8d 774 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
LEE James Edward Ashton 8d 774
MILLWARD Lilian Ashton 8d 774 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
NOKE Beatrice Ashton 8d 774



Births Dec 1915 Barber Lilian Millward Ashton 8d 777

Births Dec 1918 Barber Peggy Millward Ashton 8d 666

Births Jun 1925 BARBER Mary Millward Ashton 8d 1180



Name: William Albert Barber
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1884
Registration District: Ashton Under Lyne
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 451



Name: William A Barber
Birth Date: abt 1884
Date of Registration: Sep 1960
Age at Death: 76
Registration District: Ashton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 110

Name: William Albert Barber
Probate Date: 30 Dec 1960
Death Date: 19 Aug 1960
Death Place: Lancashire, England
Registry: Manchester, England


William Albert Barber of 62 Thornfield Avenue, Ashton-under-Lyme. Probate to Lilian Barber, widow. Effects £5297. 4s. 1d.



Name: Lilian Barber
Birth Date: abt 1885
Date of Registration: Sep 1961
Age at Death: 76
Registration District: Lothingland
Inferred County: Suffolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 743



Name: Lilian Barber
Probate Date: 3 Nov 1961
Death Date: 5 Jul 1961
Death Place: Lancashire, England
Registry: Manchester, England

Lilian Barber of 62 Thornfield Avenue, Ashton-under-Lyme died at the junction of London Road and St. Marys Road, Beccles, Suffolk. Probate to Herbert Barber, Baker and Confectioner and Lilian Wood married woman. Effects £11019. 2s.

Sorry, I forgot to tell you of his siblings and Father's name.
He had sisters Edith b. 1883 and Gertrudeb 1886, and another sibling, Mum thinks was a boy, but we don't know his name. May be William, as Mum remembers an uncle Will. His father was William Thomas Barber, and she disliked him, as he used to make fun of her dad, calling him "That cripple" due to his foot.
I think his wife may have been a Margaret Ann.

Hi roots
Thank you for all the hunting you have done on my behalf.
The marriage in 1916 on page 1 is correct.
Herbert died about 1971, and Harriet around 1970. (They died within a year of one another, Harriet first.)
I couldn't work out why he should describe himself as a labourer.
I wondered if he might have been married previously, and lost his first wife, as Mum insists that there was an 11 year gap between their ages. However, there is no family history of that. Grandpa had a derisory military pension, and a built up boot following his discharge from the army. I think that seeing his record may be quite emotional!
Liz

WW2 military records are not available online. Your Mum would have to apply for them. If your Herbert served in WW2 he is unlikeyl to have been the man born in Ashton.



EDIT

The Herbert who served in South Africa (The Boer War) is this man who can't be your Herbert.

BARBER, HERBERT

Rank: Private
Service No: 5665
Date of Death: 07/07/1915
Age: 42
Regiment/Service: Lancashire Fusiliers 2nd Bn.
Panel Reference Panel 33.
Memorial YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Additional Information:

Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. Son of Harry and Sophia Barber; husband of Ada Clara Smith (formerly Barber), of 411, Featherstall Rd., Oldham. Served in the South African Campaign.



And on his enlistment his occupation is "Labourer"

Name: Herbert Barber
Age at Enlistment: 29
Birth Parish: Oldham
Birth County: Lancashire
Regimental Number: 8385
Regiment Name: Manchr Regiment
Number of images: 9



If you wish to research further, you really do need the marriage certificate otherwise everything is just pure guesswork.


Do you know if Herbert or his wife had any siblings please?


Do you know when Herbert or Harriet died please? Are any of the deaths posted on page 1 of the thread correct please?

Thanks for all the advice. Now, How do I go about looking at Herbert Barber's Military record. He had his foot blown off in the second world war, but I can't find any one from Ashton registering with that name and close birth date. There is a Herbert Barber, who registered in Oldham, but he seemed to have seen service in South Africa, which My Mum doesn't recollect any history of. He was also married to someone who was not Harriet Long, although I suppose that he may have had an earlier marriage. Wouldn't an injury show up in the records?

Interesting?

Name: Thomas Barber, Widower, Butcher
Birth Year: abt 1835
Age: 23
Marriage Date: 4 Jan 1858
Parish: Ashton Under Lyne, St Peter
Parish as it Appears: Ashton Under Lyne
Father's Name: Lewis Barber, Mechanic
Spouse's Name: Sarah Ann Stafford, Spinster
Spouse's Father's Name: James Stafford, Rover


Witnesses: John Barber and Mary Jane barber


Reference Number: L74/1/2/1
Item Number: 2
Archive Roll: 517




His first marriage?

Marriages Jun 1854
ASHTON Henry Ashton 8d 745
BARBER Thomas Ashton 8d 745 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Brandon Esther Ashton 8d 745 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Lakes Hannah Ashton 8d 745


And from Freereg


County Lancashire
Place Ashton-Under-Lyne
Church St Peter
RegisterNumber 2673
BurialDate 26 Jul 1857
Forename Esther
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname BARBER
Age 22y
Abode Ashton under Lyne
Notes
FileNumber 8739

?????


Marriages Sep 1919
Barber Gertrude Matthews Ashton 8d 1121
Matthews Charles H Barber Ashton 8d 1121

Name: William Thomas Barber of 223 Stockport Rd. Ashton-under-Lyme
Probate Date: 12 Nov 1936
Death Date: 22 Sep 1936
Death Place: Lancashire, England
Registry: Manchester, England

Probate to William Albert Barber, Butcher and Edith Barber, Spinster.
Effects £2983 13s. 9d.



1891

Name: Thomas Barber
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Ashton Under Lyme, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Ashton under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Ashton under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 4 Church Court

Occupation: Butcher

Condition as to marriage: Widower


Registration District: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration District: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3275
Folio: 70
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Barber 56
Harriet Fowden 58


Deaths Sep 1900 Barber Thomas 66 Ashton 8d 349

???

1911

Name: Herbert Barber
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Ashton Under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 66-8 Stockport Road Ashton U Lyne
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Butcher Son Working Home
Registration District: Ashton under Lyne
Registration District Number: 468
Sub-registration District: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Piece: 24362
Household Members:
Name Age
William Thomas Barber 50, Butcher
Margret Ann Barber 60 Married 29 years, 4 children born, 4 children living
Edith Barber 28
Gertrude Barber 25
Herbert Barber 24


1891

Name: William T Barker
[William T Barber]
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret A Barker
Gender: Male
Where born: Ashton, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Ashton under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Ashton under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 175 Victoria Street

Occupation: Butcher

Condition as to marriage: Married

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration District: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration District: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3275
Folio: 27
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
William T Barker 31
Margaret A Barker 40 b. Liverpool
Edith Barker 8
William A Barker 6
Gertrude Barker 5
Herbert Barker 4


Marriages Sep 1881
BARBER William Thomas Barton I. 8c 717
GITTINS Thomas Barton I. 8c 717
Gouch Mary Purnell Barton I 8c 717
WILLIAMS Margaret Ann



Name: Margaret Ann Williams, Spinster, 12 Victoria Crescent, Eccles
Birth Year: abt 1851
Age: 30
Marriage Date: 26 Sep 1881
Parish: Eccles, St Mary
Parish as it Appears: Eccles
Father's Name: John Williams, Occ. Pilot

Spouse's Name: William Thomas Barber, Occ. Butcher, 136 Oxford Rd Manchester

Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Barber, Occ. Butcher
Reference Number: L49/1/6/40
Item Number: 2
Archive Roll: 535

Wtnesses: Samuel Barber and Mary Jane Barber



1881

Name: William Thos. Barber
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relationship to Head: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Chorlton on Medlock
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 136 Oxford St
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Butcher

Registration District: Chorlton
Sub-registration District: Chorlton Upon Medlock
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3920
Folio: 111
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Andrew Wilkinson 49 Butcher
Martha Wilkinson 47
John B. Wilkinson 18
William Wilkinson 17
Jane Wilkinson 15
Emma Wilkinson 10
William Thos. Barber 21
Emma Egan 25


1871

Name: William T Barber
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Barber
Mother's Name: Jane Barber
Gender: Male
Where born: Ashton U Lyne, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Ashton under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Ashton under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration District: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration District: Ashton Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Household Schedule Number: 165
Piece: 4074
Folio: 48
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Barber 36, Butcher
Jane Barber 35
William T Barber 11
Mary J Barber 9
Samuel Barber 7
Lewis H Barber 6
John J Barber 3
Albert Barber 1

Address 66 and 68 Stockport Road

Thanks patchem
I will try that.

Have you found the people in the censuses for a rough date of birth?

Then free bmd back to 1837/1838 to start with.

You need to buy certificates for more information and to check up that what has been posted is accurate, particularly if people are forgetful.

Hi all
I think that the Harriet Long born in Scholes is probably the right person. My Mum is the one who said she was born in Holmfirth, but she is getting a bit forgetful. We went to see her Mums childhood house a year or so ago, and that was still there. The family was a farming one, but also butchered meat. Herbert Barber was also a Butcher. I think his dad was as well.
Thank you so much for your help. Researching family trees is hard work!
Also can any one tell me how I find out the date of births for people who were born before 1866, as My Dad's grandma seems to be amongst these.

Might be this one then as it includes Scholes


Births Sep 1895 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long Harriet

Huddersfield 9a 286

This is the above Harriet 1911, just in case!

1911 England Census
Name: Harriet Lang
Age in 1911: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Scholes N Holinforth, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Ashton Under Lyne
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 105 Welbeck St Ashton Under Lyne
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Butcher's Assistant
Registration District: Ashton under Lyne

Thomas George Lang 59
Henry Lang 17
Harriet Lang 15

So that is 10 years different to what the poster thought

Need that feedback

?? But you need the marriage cert.

1901 England Census
Name: Harriett Long
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas G Long
Mother's Name: Eliza Long
Gender: Female
Where born: Scholes, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Wooldale
Ecclesiastical parish: Holmfirth Holy Trinity
County/Island: Yorkshire

Registration District: Huddersfield
Sub-registration District: Holmfirth

Thomas G Long 49
Eliza Long 43
Charles E Long 18
William G Long 12
Farnek W Long 9
Henry H Long 7
Harriett Long 5

This is all I can find:

Name: Harriet Barber
Birth Date: 20 Aug 1897
Date of Registration: Dec 1971
Age at Death: 74
Registration District: Ashton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 602s

From Lancashire BMD


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1916


BARBER Herbert LONG Harriet Oldham Register Office or Registrar Attended Oldham RM/149/102