Genealogy Chat

NEED to find the original Fellman family we researched in 1901 . Price street
I believe Samuel Fellman is actually leizer- Mendel Fellman with his 2nd wife Sheina
I know census has him as aged 46 and ours should be aged 50 but several of the children's names + ages correspond
what does anyone else think ?

Mera b1880 could have become May
Bassa b1882 Bessie

Sora b1885 Sarah
David b1886 kept his name aged 14 on census
Taube died in manchester at the end of 1891
Khaya b1891 became Tilly aged 10
Gertrude was born in 1893 in lancs followed by Esther in 1897
Elder sister Rebecca married in Prestwich in 1897 then the rest of the Fellman family including my great grandfather George jacob moved to Birkenhead where he met my great-grandmother Charlotte Roberts who could well have been a draper's assistant in his father's shop .

from Brigid's sleuthing today
further proof that Leizer mendel Fellman from russia in 1891 is lazarus thru the 1890's manchester +Samuel L.Fellman in 1901 Birkenhead + in NY
School records ; 26th nov1891 ;Mary,Betsy + Sarah of 101 new bury road are admitted to Manchester jews school born Russia father's name Lazarus

in1898 Golda fellman b1893of 7 new bury road is admitted father's name Samuel
I think she is Gertrude on 1901 census
there is also Rebecca fellman b1891 who could be our khaya/tilly/matilda (but father/guardian's name is illegible .

On 9th jan 1900 Birkenhead Matilda Fellman Dob of 36 Price St is admitted to
St John Church of England school her parent is given as George (tho her 30 year old brother would be taken as being her father .

argyll gran found them booked on a ship

"New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Sana Feldman
Name: Sana Feldman
Arrival Date: 2 Apr 1905
Birth Date: abt 1869
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Hebrew
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Celtic

Her name is scored out, so she didn't travel. Also her children Cilly (? Lilly ? Tilly?) aged 4; Girtz (?) aged 10; Esther aged 5."

I was told they did travel to liverpool with father Samuel too ( and older sisters ?) it was the Oceanic 9th march 1905
also listed as resident in liverpool + in GB for 14 years .
visiting son Barnett ...not come across him before !


Tilly should have been aged 14

1910 Censu
Brooklyn Ward 21, Kings, New York, United State

Samuel Fellman
Head 35
Russia
Jennie Fellman

Wife
42
Russia

Bessie Fellman
Daughter
23
Russia



Celia Fellman
Daughter
21
Russia

Matilda Fellman
Daughter
16
England

Gertrude Fellman
Daughter
15
England

Lestrbe Fellman
Daughter
11
England

summary ; looks like ; May paid for her brother to go to USA in march 1904 ( Could Barnet Feldman ,tailor aged 32/22 be David Fellman or the mysterious older brother?)
Bessie dressmaker aged 20 (should be 30) went to join brother "Barius Feldman" at 478 myrtle av Brooklyn Oct 1904
march 1905 Samuel aged 50 a "traveller" and daughter Sarah dressmaker 17 with wife Sanna Tilly aged 11(should be 14), Gertty 9 and Esther 5 travelled to Brooklyn .

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1345669

Rewind ;
if the Fellman brother's have "jacob" as their patryonym
Jacob Fellman d1922 w derby aged 52 is the perfect age to be the eldest

even the Dundee George Feldman isstill in the running because until i see the original of his parents names mordekai Feldman + Mary Bredman are possible transcriptions /translations for mandel + geiss-eda landman

Barius J Fellman aka Barnet/benjamon could easily be the Jacob Fellman who was a wallpaper packer north mancs aged 26 in 1901 we need to find his wife's name
Maybe he was married to Rachel Fellman who died in prestwich aged 27 in 1900

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1349969

The USA naturalizations of George Jacob Fellman's siblings often give birthdates which differ slightly from the Russian records . school records + dates on their graves


i've a feeling there may be Birth dates ,registration date of birth or equivalent of
baptism dates .

i wonder which dates are the most likely to be accurate .

Details of most of the siblings in USA
came from
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702215.msg5691564#msg5691564

Just been told of another possible brother : Abraham Fellman of Herbert St manchester
living same house as Abraham isaac Cohen don't know ages or dates its from trades details on fmp apparently

TO THROW CAT AMONG PIGEONs

We had a lot of help tracing siblings of my ggfather george Jacob Fellman "2nd of 12"

we can put names to 7 siblings
Rebecca,b1872 Dvora, Mera ,Bassa, Aron-mottel ,Sora + David b1886

+ brother "Barnt/Bengeman b1876

+ 4 half siblings Taube, Khaya Golda/Gertrude + esther (plus I'm fairly sure samuel + Isreal who died in mancs as babies early 1890's

BUT; when explaining this family to a relative + checking russian data i
All the IV generation cousins take father's name as their middle name


our V generation Lazarus-mendel Leib Fellman b1851 (Samuel)
Has a brother Jankel Leibe Fellman B1842 d1904 Riga ..

Jankel is equivalent of Jacob

so some of our findings could be cousins


+ Barnet J . and the Jacob we came across in earlier research be other brothers
GGfather George-jacob Fellman's hospital records say BOTH parents are deceased by 1920 but

V Lazarus/ Samuel was still living in 1925 New York.

do you think Nathan is a likely anglisisation of Nachman ? in which case the Fellman's in west Derby would be other IV cousins .


meanwhile I'll continue my search into deaths + school records in UK .

RE ; GEORGE JACOB FELLMAN
chris ho came up with another fascinating newspaper article from merthyr tydvil

dec 1914 he was in court for being an alien without possession of certificate of nationality .+ asking to work in munitions !

confirms it is the same man as in 1911 census
debt collecting was mentioned as one of his jobs as stated on his 1916 registration permit which is obviously more detailed than the certificate he'd been using since august 1914

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4001144/4001152/68

Thats a lot of detail ;

I was sure "debt "collector was a mistake + he'd been selling art ...didn't expect sales of ..false teeth either

BTW have you seen that David Fellman's petition for naturalization has a faint stamp across regarding an act of may 1926

i think it says june 26th 40co 157 ....brigade honourable discharge .....1918 do we have anything about his military record ?

NEED HELP WITH US RESEARCH PLEASE REQUEST 1
I was told David FELLMAN b1886 didn't have children with Sadie nee Froelich.

1) Apparently he is on a census (presumably 1925 ..aged 39 sadie aged 36 and David aged 17 Sara aged 14

can someone pls clear up if these were his children + if they have descendents.



REQUEST 2
can anyone find a transcription or clue as to identity of missing eldest sibling b. 1868-1070 Russia(Latvia), Courland ,Jakobpils . not found him /her in UK
arriving US anytime between 1891when family left Russia + 1900 when they moved from Manchester to Birkenhead (Cheshire) nr Liverpool

The clue may be ;

Barnet Fellman's crossing March 30th 1904 to stay with sister M ....surname illegible who'd paid his passage
His age looks like 32 on written page but is transcribed as 22
or

is this him ;

1900 Barnd Fellman age 24 march 11th on Esturia from liverpool to Southbridge
paid for own ticket


either way our

Barnet Jacob Fellman aka BArius J or Bengeman married Lena Ratner in1902 manhatten
+ had baby Tillie /matilda aged 2 in 1905 census

Request 3

we assumed Barnet died before 1910 because Lena + Tilly are living with David Ratner in 1910

could he simply be away /elsewhere or divorced on census night
His name comes up as Falman in 1905 so spellings could vary

or ... what became of Lena + Tilly Fellman

Any detective work or even theories about missing siblings gratefully received

REQUEST 1

There are TWO couples called David and Sadie Fellman on the 1925 New York Census, both similar ages.

This is yours:

Name: David Fellman
Birth Date: abt 1888
Birth Place: England
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Residence Place: Brooklyn, Kings
Relationship: Head
Colour or Race: White
Number of Years in US: 20
Assembly District: 07
House Number: 663
Line Number: 38
Page Number: 52
Household Members:
Name Age
David Fellman 37 - watchmaker, jewellery store. Naturalised 1924.
Sade Fellman 34 - born Austria

________________________________________________________________

This is the other family:

Name: David Fellman
Birth Date: abt 1886
Birth Place: Russia
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Residence Place: New York, New York
Relationship: Head
Colour or Race: White
Number of Years in US: 19
Assembly District: 09
House Number: 320
Line Number: 14
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
David Fellman 39 - a tailor
Sadie Fellman 36 - born Russia
David Fellman 17
Sara Fellman 14
Marie Andrews 27
Oscar Williams 24

Re: His military

U.S., Lists of Men Ordered to Report to Local Board for Military Duty, 1917–1918
Name: David Fellman
Gender: Male
Entrainment Date: 26 Jun 1918
Entrainment Camp: Camp Gordon
Local Board: Richmond, Georgia, USA
Residence Year: Abt 1918

Occupation watchmaker.
______________________________________________________________

U.S., Department of Veterans Affairs BIRLS Death File, 1850-2010

Name: Dave Fellman
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 Oct 1886
Death Date: 31 Jul 1986
SSN: 120281768
Branch 1: ARMY
Enlistment Date 1: 28 Jun 1918
Release Date 1: 24 Dec 1918

(These dates correspond to those on the naturalisation record)
______________________________________________________________

His WW1 & WW2 draft cards are on FamilySearch

REQUEST 3

You can track Lena and Matilda (Tilly) through the US and New York census on FamilySearch. Lena appears to be listed as widowed on the 1910.

Lena died 28 December 1966 in Connecticut.

Matilda died 26 August 1982 in Connecticut, unmarried.

Bernard died 1906, here's his estates file (4 pages)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-664-11319-2723-46?cc=1466356

You could answer a lot of your own queries on FamilySearch

https://familysearch.org/

on behalf of Alisoun + myself well done Marie celeste ;What a co-incidence that both David had wives called Sade

if Bernard died before 1910 then maybe George-Jacob didn't count the unbaptised boy among his dead 3 siblings .to make up numbers to dozen siblings so I have to find another sibling .

less work for us in tracing descendents if we can rule out that Bernard + David had children

had probs getting on Family Search ..

I had some questions about jewish faith ans stooped 2 young lads in jewish best clothes today ,turned out 1 was Rabbi's son from the great Synagogue in Leics ..Orthodox .they told me there was a dance + song festival tonight + invited me along . quite an eye opener ,fun .learnt more .....we definately can't claim to be eighth Russian ..it has to go thru mother's line so we can only say the we have Russian blood .

the cakes were lovely ,i held back on alcohol ..tiny shots..... i'm driving so nearly refused.Enjoyed the dancing + suddenly recognised one song + sang along ..I have a version of friends singing it ..but don't know what it means .

phoned my best friends parents on return to wish them Yom Tov ??

i am going to help them complete their family search + it turns out ..the father is very knowledgeble in history.geography + the religion tho they no longer follow "such ancient practises"

A clip from manchester rates book

Nightingale st



https://goo.gl/photos/wVBvx1PG1d3MqBok6

The second entrance has I think
......Philman
Crossed out with Jane Fellman written above

I think

That would be georges stepmum