Genealogy Chat

Hi Pam. I wasn't questioning your post, and I agree, there may be Jewish connections here. Just wondered if I'd missed something - the other post was rather lengthy and complicated - think I lost it half way through.

Thanks Ann for checking the image, glad you agree just hope we are right - I believe a name ending in stadt was a city, so that rules out towns and villages.

My mother came to the same conclusions as Pam about the Jewish connections it explains why we don't find George Jacob and Mandel in1881 . Although I'm learning not to follow all her assumptions .
I hope to find a link with this Geo J 1911 census and Dundee Courrrier newspaper 1906
and/or George Fellman 1924 death
Today I looked at trade directories for 1894 and 1896 but found no trace of any Fellman .I will now try the sites you suggested .
Thanks for your offer Flip I don't have access to the census unless i go to the library so I'd be grateful of the image on PM

OK. image en route check your inbox - we were just having dinner.

I registered on the raduratski site but the searches were all in Russian script so I couldn't decipher names .I look forward to seeing the 1911 census .

Alisoun mentioned the 1906 Dundee incident about a George Jacob Fellman who was selling postcards in Dundee, found in a newspaper article while looking for something else. Described as a "well dressed young man" and the text suggests he may have been some sort of commercial traveller.

Have to confess this has been niggling at me so I poked around.

On the Scottish 1911 census in Dundee there is a George FelDman who was 42 years old, born in Russia and a clothier.

BUT - this one was allegedly married for 15 years and had 5 children. This is the family:

George Feldman 42 Clothier (own account) born Russia
Bertha Feldman 39 born Russia
Gertrude 14 born England
Moses 12 born Glasgow
Louis 11 born Dundee
Harry 9 born Dundee
John 7 born Dundee

However, I can't find Bertha or the elder 3 children on 1901 census, or an english birth for Gertrude.

Opinions?
:-S

Did more digging - the above man died 1925.

Wife was Bertha Babok.

Parents (both deceased) Mordekai Feldman and Mary ms Bredman.

So I guess that rules out Mendel as a parent so perhaps a very big coincidence?

EDIT: Found Louis birth, *mother was surname Zelok. They were married 1895 in Theodosia, Russia.

Oh well, will leave if just to eliminate.

*NOTE: Have amended typo where I'd put bother instead of mother.

Thanks for looking but you've now raised another doubt . How do I know that the George Jacob Fellman in 1901 census in Birkenhead is the same as the George Fellman with his mother in Cheetham in 1901 ; Is this another of my mothers assumptions because they both say born in Russia and a lot of Russian Jews did go to Cheetham initial then to Liverpool often with view to going on to USA.?
maybe the Cheetham George did go to Scotland and get married around 1896 it's not too far fetched for his mother's name Mandel to be anglicised to Mary .
Could it be a separate person from George Jacob who fathered my grandma .

Well MC, that throws the cat amongst the pigeons! Is there any sign of another George Fellman/Feldman in 1901, we now have 2 of them in 1911 but only 1 in 1901.

Confused - you say you have found Louis birth, and brother and married in 1895? Not sure what you mean, who was married in 1895 in Russia?

What about this birth for Gertrude, Lancs BMD has transcribed name as Feldman, unfortunatley no mmn transcribed. This in freebmd version:

Births Dec 1897 (>99%)
Feldmon Gertrude Manchester 8d 238

There's a Jacob Feldman in Cheetham 1901, he's a wallpaper packer, married according to the image. Again age is out, but wonder?

Jacob Fellman
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Russia
Civil parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Cheetham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 293
Piece: 3767
Folio: 207
Page Number: 59
Household Members:
Name Age
Myer Gilbert 26
Rebecca Gilbert 25
Rachel Gilbert 3
Mathew Gilbert 1
Jacob Fellman 26

No idea if this is relevant though.

MC - did you mean that George/Bertha married in Russia in 1895?

If so, the George found in 1891 Cheetham can't be the same guy - unless he went back - although the age ties in better than with the one in Wales in 1911,

Sorry - was nearly falling asleep when I typed last night and didn't make things clear.

The writing on the images wasn't too clear but the gist of it is that on the death record of the George Feldman it looks like his wife's name is Bertha Babok. On the birth of their son Louis it looks like her name is Bertha Zelok, and that they were married 1895 in Russia.

What intrigues me about this is the occupation of clothier on the 1911, which implies drapery/tailoring. By the time he died in 1925 he seems to have moved into jute and sack manufacturing.

Looks like the Scottish 1911 wasn't completed by the householder the way English ones were, would have been useful to see who completed it.

Alisoun - what info was given about him on the affiliation order? Does it give any personal info like occupation, marital status, etc?

the affiliation order only gives his full name as george jacob fellman ;wirral archives told me that the Borough road address in Birkenhead had been helpful in finding the document so I've emailed to ask if they have a transcript of the case or any more information .
Yes we can eliminate the George in scotland as being connected to cheetham George if he was married in 1895 in Russia he couldn't have been single in Cheetham in 1891 .

The Jacob Fellman in 1901 isn't right as George Jacob works at 126 Borough Road Birkenhead in1900 as a tailor and general dealer in Gore's Trade directory
and lives at 82 borough Road in 1901 census .

I ruled out that Jacob as being the one who died in 1922 in West Derby aged 52.
But I could be wrong , lets see if alien registration or naturalisation records in glamorgan turn up anything .

ps Respect to MC for discreet wording regarding the Dundee newspaper report ; if this is the same George Jacob he was a travelling salesman and had been in Derby 3 weeks before .There was a sentence "belongs to Jersey" which we wondered about
coulld it be a typset error and originally been "belongs to Jewery" I've seen some court cases of the time where they included this sort of comment .

All go on this 1 ; Glamorgan has found his alien rgistration letter and death place ....and mum answered a link I sent her to a Rusisian site
replied to a simple request in English
;see thread " 1906 court cases"

Pam thanks for your wonderful tip ....guess what galamorgan records say the document has his date + place of birth and ......a photo . mum will be able to see what her Grandfather looked like ..she also got a reply from the Russian site .and the Bridgend registered death looks th emost likely now ...so he remained single + childless ;
thanks everyone .

Just catching up after a week at work. That is good news Alisoun, gives your mother something of her past. :-) - finally!

That's good news Alisoun. Do post the details when you have them, we may not be able to find anything further, but we can try.

registration as an alien ; well he was born in 1871 in jacobstadt
his profession was a debt collector .
he came to GB in 1891 hence living off means on census he'd only just arrived
he had to re-register in 1819 + 1820 lived in various towns in wales in those years and .......There is a PHOTO .... I highly recommend anyone with foreign ancestors in 1914 to see if there is an alien registration form for them

have repeated this info on my thread on looking for ancestors ; LancashireAnn had the right man on 1911 census ;I wonder if Collector meant he'd returned to his original proffession as Debt collector rather than Art /porn collector as we feared after the 1906 case .
He looks a nice man smiley eyes ,don't really see a resemblance to my nana tho

i misread the registration form 'george Jacob;s debt collecting is his profession in GB .
Also beginning to think that the George Jacob feldman in Dundee with children may be the one arrested in 1906 over the postcards sales .

I wouldn't count on that Alisoun.

That 1911 Scottish census that I posted just had him named as George Feldman - no middle name of Jacob. Also, two of his children were born in Dundee 1900 to 1904 (I did say that I'd looked up one of the son's births).

So that means that the man on the census had already been established in Dundee for several years. That does not fit with the 1906 newspaper article about the young man who had arrived in Dundee just 3 weeks earlier (and who did have the appropriate middle name).

From my own experience, you sometimes just have to live with gaps in your information rather than making assumptions to try to make things fit.