Genealogy Chat

Morning MarieCeleste....Christopher has his work cut out with this family...!!

Looks like William Butcher Porter had a child younger than his grandchildren per 1911!

PORTER, Mary Elizabeth Head Widow F 50 1861 Pte Property Enfield Highbury
PORTER, Rose May Daughter F 9 1902 Lambeth

RG number: RG14 Piece: 2078
Reference: RG14PN2078 RG78PN72 RD25 SD4 ED29 SN101
Registration District: Lambeth
Sub District: Brixton
Enumeration District: 29
Parish: Lambeth

Address: 34 Somerleyton Road Brixton S W County: London

I think that 1900 marriage may be right:

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: William Butcher Porter
Probate Date: 22 Jul 1908
Death Date: 9 Feb 1908
Death Place: Surrey, England
Registry: London, England

Lived 34 Somerleyton Road, Brixton. Probate to Mary Elizabeth Prter, widow. Effects £799 9s 6d.
..........................................................................................................

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: William Butcher Porter
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1908
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 255

Are these the parents of Elsie.....?

Marriages Sep 1899 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HALEY Annie Amelia Portsea 2b 1078
South Alfred Portsea 2b 1078

Looking at Elsie Rosetta....found this ....1881

Birth Year: 1841
Birthplace: Wales
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: **Commd Coastguard (Rn)**
Address: Rope Walk
Event Place: St Just In Roseland, Cornwall, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341554
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 2307 / 42
Page Number: 16
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Thomas Healy M 40 Wales
Wife Ann Healy F 35 Southsea, Hampshire, England
Son Charles F Healy M 11 Southsea, Hampshire, England
Daughter *** Annie A Healy *** F 8 Helford, Cornwall, England
Daughter Charlotte W Healy F 7 , Cornwall, England
Daughter Eliza E Healy F 3 St Mawes, Cornwall, England
Daughter Edith M Healy F 2 St Mawes, Cornwall, England

Did William Butcher Porter marry twice...?

Marriages Sep 1900 (>99%)

Porter William Butcher Dartford 2a 1010
Smith Mary Elizabeth Dartford 2a 1010

Many remarriages back then were a matter of convenience.

There was no benefits system so if a woman was widowed and had a young family, and wasn't in a position to work, then she'd need to find another husband to put bread on the table. The alternatives could be the workhouse, prostitution, begging.

There was a much higher incidence of women dying during, or soon after, childbirth so if a man was left widowed with small children then he needed someone to look after them so sought another wife.

When researching some families there seems to be almost indecent haste between the death of a spouse and a remarriage, but they probably had their reasons.

William Herbert Porter doesn't exactly fit this as there was around 3 years between the death of Amy Constance and his marriage to Laura Maud and then 5 years between her death and his marriage to Mary Catherine.

OK, the tree I have now is what I am absolutely certain of. Tomorrow I'll start to add the info I now have about my granddad's father. That's where it starts to get complicated. Why would anybody marry 3 times? Once is enough for me!

Christopher - be careful, it can get to be a lot more than a hobby!

We've been quite lucky on this one as events have happened in places where there happen to have been parish records on other sites, and WHA Porter's WW1 service records survived (around 65% were destroyed during WW2). Their names were also a little more unusual so it was easier to identify them.

Somewhere along the way you'll need to order certificates to confirm details that can't be found elsewhere, like who was the mother of Elsie Rosetta South (birth registered as Haley). Order them from GRO, cost £9.25 http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

All this is fantastically useful. Thank you everybody for your help. Unfortunately the tree has become so complicatede with my great grandad's 3 marriages and my parents relationship (half cousins) that I have now lost track. I can think of nothing else than deleteing the whole thing and starting again with all the info I now have. What a great hobby this is.

Christopher, will contact you by pm about the records.

Only 1 Ruth Hind showing for Lambeth around the right time frame for her birth....

1851 Census.

Name: Ruth Hind
Age: 8
Gender: Female
Birthplace: Lambeth, Surrey
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Schedule Type: Household

1881 Alfred E. (1871 census) not on here with family

Back to Search Results
Copy|PrintWilliam Porter, "England and Wales Census, 1881"Name: William Porter
Age (Original): 41
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1840
Birthplace: St Lukes, Middlesex, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Carpenter
Address: 1 Cemetary Road
Event Place: Camberwell, Surrey, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341159
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 684 / 12
Page Number: 18
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head William Porter M 41 St Lukes, Middlesex, England
Wife Eliza Porter F 41 Lambeth, Surrey, England
Son Walter Porter M 13 Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Son William Porter M 7 Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Daughter Alice Porter F 5 Nunhead, Surrey, England
Daughter Catherine Porter F 2 Nunhead, Surrey, England
**Visitor Jessie Goodman F 11 St Saviours Boro, Surrey, England ***


Jessie Goodman was the daughter of Leonard Goodman and Ruth **HIND**

Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Goodman Leonard Bermondsey 1d 102
HIND Ruth Bermondsey 1d 102

1881 shows them to be at 85 Grafton St. Mile End . no other children listed.

Have just been tryiung to follow that pair...its what nightmares are made of...!!

Think William B. may have married an Eliz.Hind July 1864 June quarter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hind Eliza St Luke 1b 939
Porter William Butche St Luke 1b 939


? This would be them 1871

Name: William B Porter
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 31
Relationship to Head of Household: Self
Birthplace: Finsbury, Middlesex
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: St Olave Southwark
Sub-District: Leather Market
Parish: Bermondsey
County: London, Surrey
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Self William B Porter M 31 Finsbury, Middlesex
Wife Eliza Porter F 31 Lambeth, Surrey
Son William F Porter M 5 Bermondsey, Surrey
Son Walter E Porter M 3 Bermondsey, Surrey
Son Alfred E Porter M 1 Bermondsey, Surrey
Servant Francis C Bewley F 14 Rotherhithe, Surrey
Assistant William Hands M 43 Rotherhithe, Surrey

Poss marriage

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about George Porter
Name: George Porter
Spouse Name: Louisa Thompson
Record Type: Banns
Event Date: 13 Mar 1836
Parish: Shoreditch St Leonard
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Register

Witnesses Rob Gunton and Geo Yarrow

Wm Herberts father....???

Name: William Butcher Porter
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 05 May 1839
Christening Place: SAINT LUKE OLD STREET,FINSBURY,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 13 Apr 1839
Birthplace:


Father's Name: George Porter
Mother's Name: Louisa

Pleased to know its been of value to you Christopher....mind they are a complicated lot arent they...takes some sorting through...!!

Reggie, thanks for the census stuff. I had already seen that but didn't look closely enough. My family, both mum's and dad's had an annoying habit of referring to their children by their middle names. I originally dismissed the census as a false chain because of the existence of James, who I have never hear of. However, it seems that he might well be James Frederick, hence my great uncle Fred. Thanks.

This is absolutely wonderful! Thank you all. The most important pieces of info are about his father and his marriages. There is so much detail above that it will take some time for me to sort it all out. However, whoever his father was he married 3 times. The first marriage produced 1 child, my mother's father, William Henry Augustus. The second marriage produced my father's mother (yes, my mum and dad were half cousins). That was Kitty (Kathleen). Now I can start looking for Kathleen's brothers and sisters, and of course my granddad's half brothers and sisters. Will my tree end up the most interlinked one here? Once again thank you all.

MarieCeleste, I would love to have the records if it's convenient.

So do we think Elsie Haley is Elsie Roseter's mother?? aand she named the father as South on the birth reg?