Genealogy Chat

Christopher.....I would suggest that you get together all the info.relating to Elsie Rosetta/Annie and Albert South and the Haly family prior to you starting a search otherwise you may find time is not on your side when you go visiting the Archives..

A further hunt around has come up with what may be a possible marriage for Thomas and Ann....Bear in mind the surname spelling for Thomas varies.

Name: Thomas Healey
Spouse's Name: Ann Harding
Event Date: 21 Feb 1867
Event Place: Saint Thomas,Portsmouth,Hampshire,England

This may well be Ann 1871 Census you are lucky if it proves to be her as her mother is listed with her and you would now have a "maiden" name for Ann.

Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Female
Age: 60
Relationship to Head of Household: Mother
Birthplace: Fareham, Hampshire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Portsea Island
Sub-District: Landport
Parish: Portsea
County: Hampshire
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Self Ann Healey F 25 Portsmouth, Hampshire
**Son Thomas Healey M 3 Portsmouth, Hampshire **
Son Charles Healey M 1 Portsmouth, Hampshire
Mother Charlotte Harding F 60 Fareham, Hampshire

There is death reg for a Charlotte Harding aged 67 March Quarter 1877 Reg Portsea 2b 299.

The Thomas Healey son aged 3 yrs b Portsmouth may be the following....

Name: T J Healey
Age (Original): 13
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1868
Birthplace: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Scholar
Marital Status: Single
Address:** Greenwich Hospital School ***
Event Place: Greenwich, Kent, England
GS Film number: 1341169
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 727 / 107
Page Number: 31

GHS...Naval College.

They have a web site.

http://www.grenhosp.org.uk/default.asp?page=280

The above is all just a possibilty of course and would need to be confirmed with BMD Certs.

As a matter of interest the St.where Thomas and Ann lived 1901 (Steel Street Southsea) is still there....perhaps you may get a chance to go see it when you are in Portsmouth...

http://cartographic.info/uk_street/map.php?id=716967

Thanks Eringobragh1916! I'll look into it. Why do any work when I could be doing this.

Christopher...Check this site out..
Depends on what you want to find.....you should certainly be able to get details of the Haley Family...Census etc.

The Records Office Search room has moved to the second floor of Portsmouth Central Library, where it has merged with the Local Studies Library to form Portsmouth History Centre.

Contact us

Portsmouth History Centre
Norrish Central Library
Guildhall Square, Portsmouth PO1 2DX

Telephone: +44 (0)23 9268 8046

www.portsmouthrecordsoffice.co.uk

I'm going to Portsmouth for business in a couple of week's time. Would it be useful to try to look at some actual paperwork? If so how do ||I go about it? i.e., where do I go, what do I look for and do I need to make an appointment first.

Thanks MarieCeleste....

This is the full census:

RICHARDS, Jane Servant Single F 51 1840 House Keeper Portsmouth, Hampshire
OXFORD, Annie Servant Single F 28 1863 Pawn Brokers Assistant Portsmouth, Hampshire
OXFORD, Nellie Servant Single F 20 1871 Pawn Brokers Assistant Portsmouth, Hampshire
>>HEALY, Annie Servant Single F 17 1874 Pawn Brokers Assistant Helford, Cornwall
BROWN, Mary A Servant Single F 16 1875 General Servant Domestic North Shields

Piece: 864 Folio: 61 Page: 13
Registration District: Portsea Island
Civil Parish: Portsmouth
Municipal Borough: Portsmouth

Address: 20, Highbury Street, Portsmouth County: Hampshire

1891 Census...This is Annie (Elsies mother)...cant access who she is servant to...

Name: Annie Healy
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1891
Gender: Female
Age: 17
Relationship to Head of Household: Servant
Birthplace: Helford, Cornwall
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Portsea Island
Sub-District: Portsmouth Town
Ecclesiastical Parish: Portsmouth
Parish: Portsmouth
County: Hampshire

Still cant find her or Albert 1901/1911

Christopher....You will find all details relative to Elsie on Pages 2/3/4 MarieCeleste furnished the Census 1901/1911 and Birth reg and Mel. showed the Death Reg . of Anne A on page 4.

Elsie Rosestta South was Registered at Birth as Haley (Her mothers surname) although she is down on 1901/1911 as South. Her parents Ann and Albert married in 1899.
Cannot locate them in 1901.
She resided 1901 with her Haley/Haly/Healey (Found various spelling for surname as I worked back) grandparents Portsmouth.
1911 shows her as an Adopted Daughter to Miller in London....That was a big puzzle to me as there are lots of family on her mothers side....and why London...when she married Wm she stated her surname as South so obviously that wasnt changed..was she actually adopted ....who knows.????
I have shown her Maternal grandparents and family...Thomas was a Commander RN and Coastguard....prior to 1901
You need to be purchasing some certs along the way ...Ann and Alberts MC would give details of his father and Alberts occup.....

Christopher, I think you really need to order that 1898 birth certificate for Elsie/Rosetta posted on page 3 - should answer some of the questions.

She's recorded on the census records as surname South which indicates that the family knew who her father was, probably the Alfred South mentioned when she married WHA Porter. I would also suggest getting that marriage certificate for Annie Haley/Alfred South posted earlier in the thread.

The fact that her birth was registered with the surname Haley indicates that her mother (highly likely Annie Amelia Haley) wasn't married at the time. Usually, if a child was born out of wedlock it was registered in the mother's maiden name.

The 1901 census shows her with the Haleys who are her maternal grandparents. How she came to be "adopted" by the Millers is something that would be hard to establish. There's nothing to suggest that they're her real father's family.

As said earlier in the thread, there was no formal adoption as we know it until 1927.

OK. Sorry to be naive and new to this hobby. I've gone back quite a long way in several trees and now want to try filling in details. I'm particularly interested in Elsie Roseta "South". Several of you have mentioned her with regard to the 1901 and 1911 censuses. I'm afraid I became very confused following this woman. Can one of you give me a clear idea of what was going on? She seems to have been registered at birth by a different name, sent to live with somebody else at 3 years old, and adopted by, possibly her real father's family.

I had already seen that Roy Porter. My mother told me what he told her he was doing, and his children told me at his funeral what they thought he was doing. Neither seem plausible. He would have been 18 in 1942, old enough to have been called up. I didn't know that schoolteachers were protected. Perhaps that's it. More research needed. Maybe another trip to Bletchley.

Why do you think Roy wouldn't have been at Bletchley? Granted he would only have been 15 when war broke out.

Scroll down this list to the Porters
http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/resources/file.rhtm/591882/pq.pdf

Mightn't be yours. Bletchley will do searches but they charge £25 for details.

Just in case it's of interest, these were some of the protected occupations during WW2

Doctors
Miners
Farmers
Scientists
Merchant Seamen
School teachers
Railway and dock workers,
Utility Workers - Water, Gas, Electricity

Looks like Bernard Albert Hunn would have been covered by the above and "doing his bit" in other ways:
http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=8103&inst_id=21

Quite a few results on google.

Thanks anyway

Christopher, there are no similar military records available online for WW2. I believe next of kin can obtain more recent service records, think we need someone who knows about this to explain how.

Can't find anything on Bernard Albert Hunn or William Roy Porter.

I would just like to point out that I put the marriage of George Porter and Louisa Thompson on page three of this thread.

MarieCeleste sent me details of my Granddad's war record. Is it possible to look for that sort of thing for the second world war? I am interested in 2 people, my uncle Roy (Roy Porter), William Roy Porter born 924, and Bernard Albert Hunn, born 1923. Both were old enough to be serving, yet both seem to have been at home. I would love to know why. Particularly with William Roy Porter, because there is a family story (which Ihave never believed) that he was at Bletchley Park.

OK, I can always come back down the tree and fill in the details later. Now I want to try going further back. Looking for information on George Porter, b 1816 , married Louise Thompson 13/03/1836

Christopher....Have just recapped on 1871/1881 census and noticed the Wm.F (1) and Wm (2)...hadnt noticed that...had noticed Alfred wasnt there (1881)but both may have died...will have look see.

Also it was "Jessie" Goodman daughter of Leonard Goodman and Ruth Hind who was the visitor (Not Ruth) so Eliz.was her Aunt.....

it wouldnt be beyond the realms of possibility for Catherine to marry a Porter...your family certainly knew how to do things to confuse..!!