Genealogy Chat

I have someone who according to FamilySearch was born in Ayrshire in Scotland in 1850 but despite an extensive search on Scotlands People I can finf no trace of his birth.

However on the other side of the coin he appears as a son of the family in question on the 1851 Census; 1861 Census; and the 1871 Census, albeit the birth date varies between 1850 and 1851.

Is it possible for a Birth Record not to exist?

Regards,

James

Scottish birth registration didnt start till 1855 so you wont find a birth for him . The best you can hope for is a baptism record which may have his actual birth date recorded on it

James, is this someone you have already posted about? If not, post the details and somebody may be able to help. As Shirley said, you will only find a baptism but a lot of Scottish ones for that period also had the DOB. If it is on familysearch, it should also be on SP but maybe spelt differently?

Have you tried searching on SP using the date and parish given on familysearch? Have you checked the separate Catholic section?

Yes, it is possible for birth/baptism records not to exist, at least not online.

Hi Potty trust you are well,

No not posted about this individual before, this relates to an Andrew Wotherspoon c1850 the son of Robert Wotherspoon and Ann Pollock. I have managed to track down the rest of his immediate family ok, but this individual has got me stumped.

As I said I have him with the family on on the 1851 Census; 1861 Census; and the 1871 Census, albeit the birth date varies between 1850 and 1851.

Regards,

James

Was the result you got from familysearch from a submitted tree?

Sorry, James, not finding anything for Andrew. There was another child, John, b 1847. Presumably he died as he doesn't appear on the census.

Thanks Potty,

Unfortunately don't think that is him as Andrew was showing up on the 1851 Census; 1861 Census; and the 1871 Census.

Think that Wotherspoon might relate to the one below but I will check it out next time I purchase credits for SP:-

St. Margaret's Churchyard - Dalry, North Ayrshire: Erected by Robert Wotherspoon and Ann Pollock his wife in memory of their son John who died at Hillend Parish of Dalry 19th July 1849 aged 1 year and 8 months.

Regards,

James

Have you sent for his death cerificate?

Hi Gins,

I think I will need to try and find his death certificate, from the 1891 Census and the 1901 Census he was still alive and it looks like he never married, see below:-

1891 census

POLLOCK OR WOTHERSPOON, Ann Head Widow F 70 1821 Farmers Widow
Holytwon, Lanarkshire
N/A

WOTHERSPOON, Andrew Son Unmarried M 40 1851 Farmer
Dalry, Ayrshire
N/A

WOTHERSPOON, Robert Son Unmarried M 38 1853 Civil Engineer
Dalry, Ayrshire
N/A

WOTHERSPOON OR RICHMOND, Jane Daughter Married F 43 1848 Cashiers Wife Housekeeper
Dalry, Ayrshire
N/A

WOTHERSPOON, Annie Daughter Unmarried F 28 1863 Housekeeper
Dalry, Ayrshire

1901 census

WOTHERSPOON, Andrew Head Single M 51 1850 Agricultural Farmer
Dalry, Ayrshire
N/A

RICHMOND, Annie Sister Married F 55 1846 Housekeeper
Dalry, Ayrshire
N/A

RICHMOND, Annie Pollock Niece Single F 21 1880
Hamilton, Lanarkshire

Regards,

James

Thanks Gins and everyone else who contributed, problem resolved, I never found the birth certificate but did get his death certificate, the parents are correct and he died aged 87 in Hartwood Asylum, Shotts, North Lanarkshire in 1937 aged 87 years which would make his birth 1850, he had a good innings :-)

Thanks Again,

James

Strangely, none of the baptisms that familysearch has as being at the Burgher Church, Dalry, come up on scotlandspeople. No child's surname is shown on fs but even doing an advanced search on sp using father's name brings up no results. Odd that fs should have transcribed these but that sp does not have them.

Hi Potty,

Yes very strange, I searched extensively on Scotlands People without any success, but I am getting used to strange things with this genealogy lark, not least the totally inaccurate information on many Pedigree Resource Files, I even had one where the a child died 2 years before it was born :-(

James

James, Pedigree Resource files are really not worth looking at! I would guess that Andrew's info was assumed from the census - there are a lot of question marks.

It does seem strange that he was the only child not baptised. His parents both seem to have been born in Lanarkshire and their marriage is recorded under both Bothwell and Dalry (dates are one day apart) so I wonder if he was baptised there , but nothing coming up.

I did think that if you could find another baptism on sp for the Burgher Church for 1850 that you could look at the page in case it has been missed off the fs transcription but none of the baptisms for that church are coming up on scotlandspeople. fs have a film ref for those records so the originals must be somewhere!

Thanks Potty,

As I have now got his death certificate which shows his parents and these are correct and that he died in 1937 aged 87 years, I am content to accept that he was born in 1850.

Best Regards,

James

James....

Dalry Cemetery


To the memory of Robert Wotherspoon who died at Kersland 16th September 1885 in his 72nd year, his youngest daughter Annie Pollock Wotherspoon died at Jersland 11th March 1852, Ann Pollock wife of the above Robert Wotherspoon died at kersland 17th January 1893 in her 72nd year. Interred in old churchyard, John died 13th July 1849, John died 11th March 1859, Ann died 16th August 1859, children of the above named Robert Wotherspoon.

Eringobragh1916,

Thanks for that, I came across it earlier when I was looking into the marriage of Robert Wotherspoon and Ann Pollock.

I have done a lot of research on Scotlands People but it has not been very productive, even tried doing advanced searches using father's name and mother's maiden name but those did not bring up any results either, and as a pensioner I really can't afford to spend anymore this month on there hitting brick walls.

It looks to me that they had several children who died at birth or very young and where a child died they subsequently gave the christian name to another child and I think there may have been two named Ann and two named John, and as to their youngest daughter Annie Pollock Wotherspoon who died at Kersland 11th March 1852, I can find no trace of this child :-(

FamilySearch.org is throwing up the usual misleading information, they even have one of the Ann's showing as having died before she was born :-S

Ann Pollok Wotherspoon
gender: Female
BIRTH 1861
Dalry,? Ayrshire,? Scotland
DEATH 16 August 1859
Dalry, Ayrshire, Scotland

I think that this relates to the Ann born 24/10/1858.

The good news is that I managed to establish that Andrew Wotherspoon 1850 did not marry and that he died aged 87 in Hartwood Asylum, Shotts, North Lanarkshire in 1937 aged 87 years.

Thanks Again,

James

James...Did the marriage of Anne P and John take place at Bothwell 1845..?

It may be worthwhile looking (just out of interest) at Johns family from Old Monkland which is where he states he was born as there was an Anne Wotherspoon (Old Monkland) who married into the Miekle's and was living Kersland same time as John and Ann P.

James,

Familysearch.org has very good Scottish records as long as you DON'T LOOK AT PEDIGREE RESOURCE FILES which in the main are not worth the paper they could be printed on.
If you do normal, ordinary searches for births and marriages, you will usually get good results. As far as I know, Familysearch does not have any death records for Scotland so if you find a date of death it is submitted by a user and not to be trusted.

I do urge you to IGNORE that bit at the bottom of the page which says "Search Results from User Submitted Trees".

Hi Eringobragh1916,

Yes, their marriage was on 15/06/1845 at Bothwell, Lanark, Scotland, and I have checked out the Anne Wotherspoon who married into the Miekle's and no conflict there.

Regards,

James

Thanks BeverleyW,

I learned the hard way to ignore the "Search Results from User Submitted Trees" and I only use information from them now as a possible pointer of other directions to research.

Regards,

James