Genealogy Chat

Pakistan is a beautiful country & the people are lovely.
I went to visit friends there in the early 90s with my 14year old daughter. She gathered crowds wherever we went because she has red hair.
We visited Karachi, Islamabad & Rawalpindi & had a trip into the mountains which was beautiful.
The huge mosque in islamabad is truly a work of art.
I would recommend the country to anyone as long as you stay away from known trouble spots, mainly on the Northern borders.
We had hoped to go to Lahore as well, but unfortunately we didn´t have time.

Thanks Andy

Very Interesting

Just need to find out the exact town/city that my grandparents came from then it will be time to do some travelling to get further info

Jazz, have a look at this

http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/episode/meera-syal

It's not as good as the actual programme, but tells you quite a bit. You could probably find Alistair McGowan as well. Just put his name in the Search Box on the magazine homepage.

Thanks for the tip

Not sure i've seen Alastair Mcgowans either but will see if i can find that one aswell

Think another WDYTYA featured wrestling in that area. It was Alastair McGowan. His ancestors were known as Anglo Indian but they had been in that area since 17th century. His grandfather was a wrestler, I think. And owned a gymnasium.

It was a big thing for boys to body build and learn to wrestle in those days.

He has loads of cousins in India today called McGowan. And plenty of blue eyes. You often find when they look at ethnic origin that there are some surprises. The base of the Welsh language, for example, is supposed to be Sanskrit and Welsh is the oldest living European language (about 800,000 speakers). And gypsies, who people thought originated in Egypt (hence the name) are supposed to have originally come from Indian sub-continent about 700 years ago.

Sounds interesting!

What i've heard from my dad is that my grandfather & great grandfather were wrestlers in india. All i know is my dad was born in Amritsar in India and then had to move to Lahore in Pakistan after the partition.

Think i'll have to also visit Amritsar one day aswell

My grandfather also had blue eyes which makes me think i might have a european connection somewhere

Pakistan looks a fabulous country :-D :-D Can I come with you, Jazz? Partition caused so much upheaval, and it must be very easy to lose your roots in that situation unless people do what you are doing.

My grandfather was in India from about 1918-1922 with the army. My grandma said he was a Regimental Sergeant Major but I think he was probabaly a civilain and managed the officer's mess - officers lived exceptionally well. Grandfather had a lovely life and travelled extensively and took loads of photos. He lived well enough to play tennis brilliantly well, and he was a top county player in Denbighshire when he returned.

Probably he was based in Simla or Jaipur area. Lots of photos of Himalayas and places like Kashmir and Nepal. How I would like to learn more of his life in India, which he loved all his life with a passion. Have inherited that love :-D

Hi John
Unfortunately no i didn't see Meera Syal's edition but would have found it interesting and could have got some tips aswell. My dads side of the family was also caught up in the partition and had to move from India to Pakistan.
Will have to see if i can get a copy or see it on I player maybe

Not sure i can take that long time off for a bus trip but after investingating everything in the UK I might think of making a trip to Pakistan as i do know of some relatives still there who i can visit and could maybe direct me in the right direction

Jazz Have deleted my last post to you. Glad you are there. That is what I would personally do - talk to all your older relatives and write everything down. Even if it seems unimportant now, it may be a vital clue later on. Get photos and film of marriages, family events etc and copy them.

And I think if you have not seen the Meera Syal edition of WDYTYA it would be very interesting. I think her parents were Muslim and Hindu and caught up in the partition. It may even be worth writing to her for advice.

I noticed in Mirror today that a company in the East Midlands is organising a bus to Pakistan. 11 days each way for £180 return with tourist stops. Think the only dangerous town was Quetta (does that sound right.) Bus a reasonable alternative to expensive plane flight if you have a month to spare.

Hi Thanks for all your replys

I guess it will be difficult to trace ancestors unless i go and visit the towns they lived in.
Will have to visit my family members in the UK to find out if they know anything as im not really sure which towns they come from originally before the partition of India / Pakistan

I have just sent Jazz a PM explaining how to get back to the thread.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (Snore) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;-)

Helloooo Anyone there? Could you respond or switch the thread off please :-D

Jazz Time to get out of bed and respond :-D

Mentioned that all Italian bracchi families seem to come from Bardi.

"Bardi is a comune (municipality) in the Province of Parma in the Italian region Emilia-Romagna, located about 130 km west of Bologna and about 50 km southwest of Parma, in the upper Ceno valley. It is dominated by the imposing Landi Castle built over a spur of red jasper." (Wikipedia)

Population c3,000. Many families went to Wales in late 19th century and early 20th century. Carpanini, Servini, Barchetta. Wonder why.

Tis off thread, but suspect this phenomenon had happened with other immigrant movements to Britain from gypsies and Hugenots onwards.

Yes, that's the one. Meera Syal. I loved it. possibly because I love India so much.

It would mean identifying the villages, but probably the older surviving members in UK of Jazz's family may know exactly where each branch originated. I note all the bracchi (Italian cafes) families round here know exactly their roots. BARDI they mostly say very proudly. And some families have not seen Italy since pre WW1, yet they are still close.

Then Jazz would have to visit those villages and make appointments with the village officials. How would he cope with 30C, blazing sunshine and all that wonderful food?

In fact, Jazz. Can I please come with you as your technical advisor. I want to know what my grandfather was doing in Simla about 1920, anyway. My grandma said he was a Regimental Sergeant Major and a dissentary carrier.

John, I think you mean Meera Syal. I saw the programme and I seem to remember that her parents were a mixed marriage, living in what is now Pakistan and after partition had to move to India. One set of ancestors were Indian and the others Pakistani.

The village officials had all the information on one VERY long roll of cloth (I think) and it went back for centuries! It was fascinating, but I doubt if Jazz could find anything like that without visiting the ancestral villages.

Can you get back copies of the WDYTYA magazine?

On Who Do You Think You Are, there have been a couple of interesting India/Pakistan programmes.

Hopeless with names, but remember one actress went back to Pakistan. Politics and religion were important, because her family were not Muslim and had to move south after WW2 and lands were settled (settled?) between India and Pakistan.

But once she knew the villages, there seemed to be an official in each village who had all births. deaths and marriages going back many generations. They seemed to have kept all the records from all religious groups.

If you google "Indian Ancestors" several sites come up, covering British in India, Indian/Pakistani and Anglo-Indian nationalities.

http://www.new.fibis.org/ ??