Genealogy Chat

Thanks for that Janet. Living in Australia means having to rely on internet sources although on visits to the UK I have had a look in the Leeds Library.

Samuel's marriage record to Elizabeth Rhodes shows an Ann Crowther as a witness. I don't know if she was his mother, sister, sister in law etc.

Thanks again mgnv.

To get it all resolved would appear to be a lost cause. However, that's not to say you couldn't make progress, especially if you can get access to the original regos. As Janet points out, abode can be helpful. Also, when they marry, a sibling is likely to be a witness. Occasionally, nieces, brothers, mothers etc turn up on later censuses - so fingers crossed.

Incidentally, in 1848, Hunslet was a chapelry the the parish of Leeds. See Lewis(1848):
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=445

It might be of some help to look at A*cesTry as they have a copy of the actual parish records for Leeds West Yorkshire.
It might allow you to eliminate some of the children. It looks as if Samuel may have been baptised at Hunslet in Leeds. -jl

Oh dear :-( Thanks mgnv. Would appear to be a lost cause.

Thank you - I will make note of all these names just in case one or more of them prove to be family.

These 3 births are less than 9 m apart, so there are at least 2 and almost certainly 3 Johns having their kids baptized at St Peters.

Samuel Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 27 Nov 1805
christening: 19 Jan 1806 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther

Abraham Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 18 Dec 1805
christening: 09 Feb 1806 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther

James Frederick Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 20 Aug 1806
christening: 09 Nov 1806 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther


This kid could belong to any of the 3 previous Johns, or even a 4th John:

Godfrey Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 27 Jul 1807
christening: 15 Feb 1808 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther


Searching under other batch #s gets:

(c151052)
James Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 20 Jun 1809
christening: 22 Jan 1810 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther

(c009627)
Martha Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 16 Nov 1811
christening: 26 Jan 1812 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther

(c009627)
Joseph Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 23 Jan 1812
christening: 24 May 1812 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther


(C071931)
Thompson Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 10 Jul 1814 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther,? Hannah

(C071931)
Sarah Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 28 Aug 1814 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther,? Elizabeth

(C071931)
Mary Ann Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 03 Dec 1815 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther,? Hannah

(C071931)
James Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 28 Jan 1816 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther,? Mary

(C071931)
John Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 22 Dec 1816 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther,? Hannah

(C071931)
Rachel Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 09 Nov 1817 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther,? Elizabeth

(C071931)
Hannah Crouther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 04 Feb 1818 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crouther,? Hannah

(C071931)
James Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 19 Apr 1818 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther,? Mary

(C071931)
William Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 25 Apr 1819 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther,? Hannah




(c009628)
Isabella Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 04 Sep 1796 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther

(c009628)
Charles Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 10 Sep 1797 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther

(c009628)
Sarah Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 14 Aug 1798 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther

(c009629)
John Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 23 Feb 1800 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther

(c009629)
Thomas Firnish Crowther
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 22 Aug 1802 SAINT PETER,?LEEDS,?YORK,?ENGLAND
parents: John Crowther

Thank you for all that mgnv. I won't pretend to understand all of it although I've copied and pasted it so I can read it through again.

So the J151051 covers all boy's baptisms for 1806 to 1808 therefore it's possible the names I found are my 2 x great grandfather's siblings but equally possible that they have no connection at all. I'll have a look at te K151051 too and make a note of any girl's names with a father John Crowther. Who knows - it may one day fall into place.

Thanks again, mgnv.

Looking up Chris's hit on FS gets the same info as Chris posted, plus the FS source info:

indexing project (batch) number: J15105-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 918377

The batch J151051 covered baptisms at St Peters in 1806-1808 (for boys only).
The girls are under K151051. J/K are weird batch #s - maybe it's some LDS thing.
The most usual baptismal batch #s begin with C/P, and marrs with M.

A K hit has the ref info:
ndexing project (batch) number: K15105-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 918377

Now I can look up the film # in the FS catalog and see:
Title Bishop's transcripts for St. Peter's Church, Leeds, 1631-1837
Authors Church of England. St. Peter's Church (Leeds, Yorkshire) (Main Author)
Notes Microfilm of original records in the Borthwick Institute, York.
With: Yorkshire Bishop's transcripts.
Subjects England, Yorkshire, Leeds - Church records
Format Manuscript (On Film)
Language English
Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1976
Physical 22 microfilm reels ; 35 mm.

Note Location Film
Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1631-1669. FHL BRITISH Film 918371
Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1669-1736. FHL BRITISH Film 918372
Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1736-1761. FHL BRITISH Film 918373
Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1761-1775. FHL BRITISH Film 918374
Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1775-1791. FHL BRITISH Film 918375
Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1791-1803. FHL BRITISH Film 918376
****Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1803-1812. FHL BRITISH Film 918377
Baptisms, 1812-1814; Marriages, 1812-1815; Burials, 1812-1814. FHL BRITISH Film 918378
Baptisms, marriages, 1815-1817; Burials, 1815-1816. FHL BRITISH Film 918379
Baptisms, 1817-1819; Marriages, 1818-1819; Burials, 1817-1818. FHL BRITISH Film 918380
Baptisms, 1819-1821; Marriages, 1820-1821; Burials, 1819-1820. FHL BRITISH Film 918381
Baptisms, 1821-1823; Marriages, burials, 1822-1823. FHL BRITISH Film 918382
Baptisms, 1822-1825; Marriages, 1824-1825; Burials, 1823-1824. FHL BRITISH Film 918383
Baptisms, 1825-1827; Marriages, 1826; Burials, 1825-1827. FHL BRITISH Film 918384
Baptisms, marriages, 1827-1828; Burials, 1828. FHL BRITISH Film 918385
Baptisms, 1829-1830; Marriages, 1828-1829; Burials, 1829-1830. FHL BRITISH Film 918386
Baptisms, 1830; Marriages, 1830-1831; Burials, 1831. FHL BRITISH Film 918387
Baptisms, 1832-1833; Marriages, 1832; Burials, 1832-1833. FHL BRITISH Film 918388
Baptisms, 1834; Marriages, burials, 1833-1834. FHL BRITISH Film 918389
Baptisms, 1835; Marriages, 1834-1835; Burials, 1835-1836. FHL BRITISH Film 918390
Baptisms, 1836-1837; Marriages, 1836; Burials, 1836-1837. FHL BRITISH Film 918391
Baptisms, marriages, 1837. FHL BRITISH Film 918392

There is an old guide to batch #s at:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm

The coverage of the St Peter's batch #s is:
C009626 1803-1805 M009621 1572-1754
C009627 -1812 M009622 1754-1769
C009628 1796-1799 M009623 1769-1775
C009629 1800-1803 M009624 1775-1791
C071931 1813-1819 M009625 1792-1795
C071932 1819-1825 M009626 1803-1805
C071933 1825-1830 M009627 -1812
C071934 1831-1834 M009628 1796-1799
C071935 1835-1837 M009629 1800-1803
C151052 1809-1811 M071931 1813-1819
J009624 1777-1791 M071932 1820-1825
J009625 1792-1795 M071933 1826-1829
J151051 1806-1808 M071934 1830-1834
K009624 1777-1791 M071935 1834-1837
K009625 1792-1795 M151051 1806-1808
K151051 1806-1808 M151052 1809-1811
P009621 1572-1776

Although the Borthwick has the original BTs, the original parish registers are likely elsewhere.

Jill - thanks for the suggestions. I've had some dealings with Leeds Family History and they are quite helpful. I think I'll go back to them and see if anyone can help.

Two men with the name Neighbour :-0 Who would've thought it. I have an ancestor called 'Friend' and apparently that's not such an uncommon name.

Sue, I'd have a go at bringing those names forward. Maybe one of them will have included Furnish in the children's names.

Have you contacted any societies in Leeds? I Googled 'Leeds Family History' and a few possibilities popped up including the Cleveland Family History Society which might prove useful.

And would you believe it. I've just found a second person, only a few years difference in age in the same county. Bother. I don't think it changes anything but two men with the name Neighbour!! Wonder where that one came from.

Jill - I have seen Thomas Firnish Crowther. I have often wondered if he is a sibling as there is a John Crowther marrying a Martha Furnish in Leeds. I can't actually view the parish records in the Leeds library although I have done. I'm in Australia so most of my research is over the internet. My cousin did extensive research in the library but sadly he passed away last year.

The people who I thought MAY be siblings are James Frederick b. 20.8.1806, Godfrey b. 27.7.1807 and Jeremiah b. 1/4/1808. All with John as father and the same batch number. They could be but equally they could be totally unrelated :-(

Wonder if it would be worth you viewing those baptism records. I couldn't find them because I didn't go back far enough in my date input.

Now I'm looking at the entries. I think there may be two families here because Samuel and Abraham have dob (assuming accurate) that means they can't be siblings.

Wonder if you've noticed the middle name of Thomas christened 22.8.1802. On FamilySearch there are Furnish Firnish surnames for St Peter's.

I can only think that if you try to come forward with all the possible siblings, you might get lucky and spot something in their future info which helps out a bit.

Only this evening I established the relationship between the head of household in 1881 where someone of the same surname was a lodger. The penny dropped on some info I'd found which allowed me to find the head of household as a baby in 1841. Turns out forty years later his lodger was his older brother - well in as much as proof is proof without meeting the people and confirming it. But the first name of the lodger was so unusual - ' Neighbour'.

Don't give up.xJ

That's the info I have Chris. My cousin knew Samuel's birth a number of years ago so when the info came on Ancestry it was easy to find Samuel's baptism. Also I have Samuel's certificate from his second marriage. You can imagine how I felt when I saw his father's name was John. Why couldn't it be Ephraim or Shadrach :-S

West Yorkshire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812
about Samuel Crowther
Birth Date: 27 Nov
Baptism Date: 19 Jan 1806
Parish: Leeds, St Peter (Leeds Parish Church)
Father's Name: John Crowther

(the above Index on Ancestry, not sure if the child should be John and Samuel the Father, if someone can take a look, bit hard on the eyeballs this time of night for me!, but thought I'd add in case)

Chris :)

West Yorkshire, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985
West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910 (Leeds St .Peter on)
West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935

lol Jan I keep saying that myself , 'if only his father had a different name" with a run of Williams 4 generations, and all marrying either a Mary or an Ann ;-)

Thank you for that Rose.

I wish that Samuel's father had another name other than John Crowther but there it is.

Rose, I tried that for Sue's info but there are a lot of results! Problem is, Samuel's mother's name is missing. If only his father had a different name!
Jan

Sue if for eg I look for mary Ann Fishlock I get

Name: Mary Ann Fishlock
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 07 Jul 1839
Baptism/Christening Place: ISLEWORTH,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 18 Jun 1839
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Fishlock
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Mary
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04226-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 585452, 597917

If I then click on the batch number and put in 'last name' Fishlock...I get the children born to the parents with those first names... harriet , William and Thomas...from that parish...

but I suppose if there was another couple with the same forenames and surname, in the same parish it would be difficult to know if they were the right ones.

Thank you Jill - I appreciate your comments. It has been an ongoing puzzle for me for a long time. I've been able to break down many brick walls but this one is still standing strong.

Ah. We posted at the same time. Sad face allowed :-(

Sorry couldn't help.