Genealogy Chat

Thank you for all the help and time you've put in everyone..

Much appreciated!

Such a lot to take in, but I will try to get the certificate.

Spooky thing is I called my own daughter Sarah Elizabeth, a twist on the fact that her own great great great grandmothers name was Elizabeth Sarah!

Lizzie x :-0

As the England & Wales ceased using sums like 25/- in 1971, one might reasonably assume the price has increased since John last bought a cert.
The cost is now 9 quid, and you can order online - see:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Getting back to your original question.
The GRO index gives spouses' surnames from 1912q1, and the mum's maiden surname from 1911q3, so the real problem is earlier dates.
You can search the GRO index at http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
This is the best search engine for marrs, but they've only transcribed marrs completely thru the 1940s.
You can also search BMDs on Ancestry for free thru 1915 (actually, you can search anything for free there, but for most things, you won't see much detail without a sub).

You can sometimes get info in other ways. E.g., William Jr is my wife's g grandad below:
1851 England Census
Civil parish: Parton
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street Address: Parton
Registration district: Whitehaven
Sub-registration district: Harrington
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 78

William Benson 31 Parton, Cumberland, England Head M Coal Miner
Isabella Benson 30 Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Wife M
George Benson 10 Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Son
William Benson 5 Cochoe [Coxhoe], Durham, England Son
Isabella Benson 2 Parton, Cumberland, England Daughter

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2436; Folio: 213; Page: 19; GSU roll: 87117.


1861 England Census
Civil parish: Urpeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Pelton
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: Urpeth High Pit
Registration district: Chester Le Street
Sub-registration district: Chester le Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 207

William Benson 41 Parton, Cumberland, England Head M Coal Miner
Elizabeth Benson 29 Parton, Cumberland, England Wife M
William Benson 15 Coxhoe, Durham, England Son U Coal Miner
Isabella Benson 13 Parton, Cumberland, England Daughter U
John Benson 11 Parton, Cumberland, England Son
Joseph Benson 1 Chilton, Durham, England Son
Benjamin Cliff 14 Maryport, Cumberland, England Nephew U Coal Miner
George Benson 20 Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Son U Coal Miner
Samuel Richardson 21 Milton Bridge, Yorkshire, England Boarder U Coal Miner

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3760; Folio: 51; Page: 42; GSU roll: 543183.


Using https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
England, Diocese of Durham Bishops' Transcripts ca., 1700-1900
DUR BTs - Kelloe (St Helen's - image 509 of 723)
BAPTISMS Solemnized in the Parish of Kelloe
in the County of Durham in the Year 1845
November 16 [Entry] No 949; William; 2nd Son of William Benson & Isabella (late Douglas); Coxhoe Long Row; Pitman; W Skene Curate.

So now we know Wm Snr's 1st wife from the church records, and we can infer (correctly) that Eliz Cliff was his 2nd wife from the census.


However, the most useful dataset is often the local index.
As John said, you can buy BMD certs from the GRO or the local rego office, and some local offices have an online index - see http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd
The one of interest for us is http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
POCKETT William ALIDER Elizabeth Gloucester Gloucester St Mark 1873 31 No 3 458

Since this local index includes the entry # in the ref, we know the names on that entry, rather than just the names on that page.
[I can see how a curlicued H in Hilder could easily be transcribed as Al - I've asked Gloucester to check their transcription]


I think this is Emily Ada:
Using http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Births Mar 1874 (>99%)
Pockett Emily Esther Gloucester 6a 287

Under English common law, all that's necessary for a legal change of name is that one stop using the old name and start using the new name, and there be no fraudulent intent. Of course, since her initial's A by 1881 and Emily's still a minor, it would be up to her parents, not her.

Using http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/ again:
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
POCKETT Emily Esther POCKETT POCKETT HIDER 1874 Gloucester Gloucester, St Nicholas 20 311

mgnv

never seen your name before, but that was a fantastic find.

Did look at that Emily Esther POCKETT and though it might be Emily Ada. So looks like she was legit, Lizzie :-D

I have nver seen Esther change to Ada. But Ada would have been miore fashionable in 1881, I think.

So my £1.25 is not enough now. Just for a photocopy and a signature.

John - Re: So my £1.25 is not enough now.

Well, not for England/Wales, but £1.40 would get you an older Scottish cert, except it wouldn't be "certified", just a scanned copy of the original local register - you'ld have to buy enough credits to get 5 scans, but they can be parish register pages, census pages, or civil rego pages.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&409

£1.40 for a cert in Scotland? If only Wales had its own government too. :-(

Oh, we do :-D Add that to free presciptions and low University fees. Might even catch up with Scotland one day ;-)

Has anyone found Emily in 1891?

Added:
OK, found her, still claiming birth 1873/1872.
I am suspicious of the later birth posted.

Thanks for all your hard work in this guys, I have just paid £9.25 for the marriage certificate (I'm not sure what 25/- is, I'm 46 not 76!) so lets wait and see what turns up...

Exciting!

25/- is about a seventeenth of 25 guineas. And was worth 10 half crowns or 12 florins plus a bob. It was so much easier before decimalisation (when you were little more than a toddler). First we had to think in tens and hundreds, then we had to think binary when computers arrived. Too much for us oldies. Let's go back to 12's and 20's, 14's and 16's. And furlongs and firkins, and ounces and stones that were not animals and things animals sat on.

I am nearly as excited as you, Lizzie. But it does look as if Emily Ada POCKETT's dad was William, and that is what marriage cert will say.

But you never know :-)

So 25/- is about a seventeenth of 25 guineas - depends what you mean by about, I suppose. All the more reason for decimalization, I think.

Sheesh John (and mgnv!). Are you trying to confuse lizzie even more? She would only have been about 5 or 6 on Decimal Day 15 Feb 1971! ;-)

25/- or 25 shillings 0 pence= £1 5s 0d in old money

As a straight convertion to decimal money
£1-25

It used to be
12d = 1/-
20/- = £1

A guinea was £1 - 1 - 0d but there wasn't a coin in use to that value - or at least not in my lifetime.

My grandma used to have a tiny little silver coin in her purse. It was about 1953 and was just after the days of farthings - one quarter of an old penny. A mite was an eighth of an old penny. She also had a half groat - which was worth two old pence.

Reason she kept them was the idea you were never poor if you had a couple of coins in your purse.

Hope I've not confused Lizzie. She is a Rhondda girl, so I very much doubt I have :-D

I am confused why we have to pay £9.25 for same thing in Scotland at £1.40. I do remember a time when I used to get a cousin in Melbourne to order my certs there and post them to Wales - and it was cheaper to do that than walk down to the local registry office. :-)

Some one will correct if wrong, but I believe that the cheaper price for Scottish certificates applies if the image can be downloaded.

Although there was a project to scan all the images for the English/Welsh ones, it was abandoned sometime ago due to the costs involved.

One of the FH type programmes had a snippet about GRO. They have to retrieve the relevant film from storage, find the correct image, then print it out.

Confused... Me? Ha!

And don't want to burst your bubble John, but I'm not a Rhondda girl - I live in Bristol!

DetEcTive is right re Scottish certs - if I want a certified paper copy, it costs 12 GBP. This is true whatever the initial date of the record. Scanned images are generally available for older BMDs, where older means at least 100/75/50 y. A scan will be done for a newer extract, and placed on the cert, just like the GRO does.

Ireland also has a cheaper rate for uncertified copies of the register - 6 Euros instead of 10 for a certified copy. I think they're all scans on paper, but don't know. See http://www.groireland.ie/

John's not technically right re farthings - they were still minted into the later 1950s and legal tender thru 1960, but they were rare as hens' teeth by 1953.
Around 1950, I think the only use for a farthing was if you bought a loaf of bread. I'm making these figures up, but a loaf cost 1/3, but there was a govt subsidy of 3 1/4 d, so the over-the-counter cost was 11 3/4d. Nobody had any farthings, so half the time you were owing the shopkeeper a farthing from yesterday (or vice versa). (There might have been a subsidy on spuds, but he could always sell 2 lbs, so I don't recall for sure.)

Incidentally, in the 1950s, the mint was one of the few nationalized industries that made money - ha, ha! Actually, they were profitable, most due to foreign contracts - it wouldn't surprise me if it cost a halfpenny to mint a farthing.

How has my thread turned into a conversation about old money lol :-P

Not sure why it has strayed, Lizzie. I think it is the fault of everyone else except me :-D

Idle chatter whilst we wait with baited breath for the cert to arrive. Entirely up to you whether you share contents. But hope you can.

Farthings - I never remember them being legal tender when I was a boy, but they must have been - yes, about 1960 when they finally ceased to be legal tender. Hung on long after their usefulness - like many of the threads on here.

;-)

Wondering how long it takes for certificates to arrive! They have taken my money but still no certificate... been 8 days now

Thought you had got it this morning :-(

Never mind, it will come soon. Bank Holiday would not have helped. You should have asked Fraz** & F**zer to get it for you (off Heirhunters). They would have raced down from Brum to Ponty, pinned the registry office staff to the wall till they had produced said cert.

Perhaps you could try that for next cert - particularly if a large inheritance is in the offing. :-D :-D

Bingo! It came this morning..

Not sure what we have learnt from it?

It says Emily Ada Pocketts (20) married Benjamin Joseph Wicks (21) on March 23rd 1895 in Glyntaff, Glamorgan

Her Father's name was William Pocketts
His Father's name was Mark Wicks

The witnesses were Elizabeth Jane Pocketts (sister?) and Arthur James Stroud

All the men were 'Paving Cutters' ...not much inheritance in that family ha!

Lizzie Church? Denomination? Banns/License? Addresses?

No, doubt you will pocket much cash :-D :-D

Still waiting for that lady to send me Groeswen chapel records. Must follow up if it doesn't come tomorrow.