Genealogy Chat

Thank you so much for your hard work. This information should keep me out of mischief whilst I await the certificates. Regards Diana

took a bit to find them, but here they are

1911 census

Address: Moat Farm Nanpantan Near Loughborough

MONTIMER, David Herbert Head Married M 33 1878 Farmer Yorks Bradford
MONTIMER, Eleanor Marguerite Wife Married8 years M 31 1880 Yorks Lightcliffe
MONTIMER, George Basil Son M 6 1905 Glam Westcross
MONTIMER, Kathleen Daughter F 3 1908 Yorks Redcar
MELLER, Helena Servant Single F 28 1883 General Servant Domestic Leicestershire Ivy Cross
JARSON, John Servant Single M 20 1891 Waggoner On Farm Leicestershire South Croxton
HEMSTOCK, David Servant Single M 20 1891 Cowman On Farm Fiskerton Lincolnshire

Diana, As George Basil Mortimer appears to be a different family it may be best to remove him from this thread and start another thread for that family to save any confusion

Roy

Whilst I await more certificates could anyone point me in the right direction to find George Basil Mortimer and his family in the 1911 Census. George Basil Morimer was born in Gower Eastern, 03/12/1904. Father David Herbert Mortimer, mother Eleanor Marguerite Pickles. address Spring Gardens, West Crop, Oystermouth. David and Eleanor married in Lancaster in 1903 - they moved around quite a lot and had a total of 5 children - George Basil Mortimer (known as Basil or Batch), David Geoffrey Mortimer (known as Geoff - born in Loughborough in 1911), Peter Douglas Mortimer (known as Douglas), Kathleen Mortimer, and Joyce Mortimer. Eleanor Mortimer was born Eleanor Marguerite Pickles in Lower German House, Hippersholme, Brighouse, Yorkshire in 1880 and died in Deben Suffolk in 1953. Thank you. Diana

Thanks x

It's not really complicated Diana - you will soon get used to it.

Harry's birth is registered as:-

Harry - first name
Dewhirst - middle name
Peate - surname (because his mother wasn't married at the time)

Harry's father was James Dewhirst (which is why Harry got Dewhirst as a middle name).

James and Annie then marry so on the census all the children are just called Dewhirst to make things simpler when filling in the census forms.

When Harry marries he decides that he had better use his proper full birth name.

On the marriage certificate he may give no father's name or he may name James Dewhirst as his father.

At least you can now go further back with his ancestors.

Kath. x

will let you know as soon as I find out x

Look back at the 1893 marriage details posted and James married as a widower.

So back to the original question of who is named as his father on his marriage cert ?

Goodness, it seems so complicated at times but I am sure as I get used to researching things will seem a bit clearer - I hope. Looks like James and Annie jumped the gun on the 1891 Census as they are living at 4 Coventry Street, Halifax as husband and wife with a daughter, Alice aged 1. James was older than Annie so perhaps James may have already been married? Diana

Goodness, it seems so complicated at times but I am sure as I get used to researching things will seem a bit clearer - I hope. Looks like James and Annie jumped the gun on the 1891 Census as they are living at 4 Coventry Street, Halifax as husband and wife with a daughter, Alice aged 1. James was older than Annie so perhaps James may have already been married? Diana

From that it looks like his mother gave him his fathers surname as a "middle name", as Kath suggested above 23 Jul 2012 10:43

He never added his mothers maiden name at a later date,

He was registered as Peate (his unmarried mothers surname name) at the time of registration

A child's surname was not entered on a birth cert, the surname was an inferred name usualy taken from the father,

For illegitimate children (no father named ) it would be taken from the mothers surname

see http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm

Roy

Right, now have birth certificate for Harry. 18th September 1891, 4 Coventry Street, Halifax. Harry Dewhirst, boy. Father unknown Mother Annie Peate, Domestic Servant. Informant of birth - Annie Peate, 4 Coventry Street Halifax. So it looks like Harry may have added his mothers maiden name to his name in later life at some point - certainly by the time he married Elizabeth? Diana

Diana,

The helpers ask questions so we can provide the best possible information that we can find to help with requests. But with any details found by the helpers the certificates are needed to confirm.

So the 1911 census for Harry Dewhirst does have the same occupation as the marriage cert so that is looking promising.

Still would like to know if any father named on the cert and the name of witnesses.

Look forward to getting the details from the birth cert when you get it.

GB

Thanks for coming back Diana. Hope you are not put off by us pushing for information but people on Genes tend to answer queries quite quickly and it is easier if we can get answers quickly whilst we are checking the records.

Come back when you have the birth certificate and let us know what information it gives.

I would be prepared to bet that his mother is Ann/Annie and that there is no father named on the certificate. Lots of illegitimate children were given their father's surname as a middle name in those days and in this case Annie Peate went on to marry James Dewhirst so it would all seem to fit.

Kath. x

Thank you all for your time. I am currently waiting for the birth certificate. I know you are finding it frustrating but I am new to my research and am being guided by your advice. Also I have to work and do not have access to a computer whilst there, as I work in the community. I have been trying to get my head around the information that you have already, so kindly giiven.
I can tell you that Harry and Elizabeth lived at 37 Swallow Street Sheffield in October 1917. Harry was an Engineers Fitter.
Harry was certainly Harry Dewhirst Peate and not the Harry Douglas Peate - I have confirmation of that fact from a member of Harry Douglas Peate's family.Regards Diana

Diana has opened my message asking her to return to this thread but she hasn't replied to it or returned here.

Kath. x

Kath, As GlitterBaby did ask for details from certs and then received a reply via pm that never included any such details i would assume you are correct,

Diana, Without Factual/documentry evidance then all other research is speculation

Roy

You are right Roy

If Harry Douglas Peate died in Italy then the Harry D. Peate death in 1944 in Sheffield is more than likely Harry Dewhirst Peate.

Perhaps Diana doesn't have any of these certificates.

Kath. x

Info on a death cert is only as good as the informants knowledge of the deceased in question

Roy

PEATE, HARRY DOUGLAS
Rank:Private
Service No:32046
Date of Death:27/10/1918
Age:25
Regiment/Service:Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
10th Bn.
Grave ReferencePlot 5. Row C. Grave 12.
CemeteryTEZZE BRITISH CEMETERY
Additional Information:
Son of Noah and Eva Peate, of Yeadon, nr. Leeds, Yorks


would indicate the 1944 death posted on page one would be more likely

Deaths Dec 1944

Peate Harry D 53 Sheffield 9c 563


Roy