Genealogy Chat

I have now found another possible death record for John Stanley Lowe - slight discrepancy again for age at death (aged 54 years) and also recorded as "Stanley Lowe" rather than "John Stanley Lowe". However, spouses initials are "L.R." and these were the initials of his probable common law? wife at the time of his death. Date of death was 26th January, 1930. The age discrepancy is not too extreme - Actual birth date 26th August, 1868 and alternative birth date 26th August, 1872. Stanley was a name which he chose to include in his names in 1903 and perhaps it was a name he chose to use rather than John. This death record can be found on:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-26181-18431-80?cc=1932433&wc=14216749

I would be really pleased to have anyone's thoughts on this.

Many thanks for your suggestions and thoughts regarding the headstone image.

Yes, there certainly appears to be a close connection with family members of George.

Although the 1935 death is the closest match so far, it would seem from the gravestone that I need to search further for a more complete match.

As I have been unable to find my John on the 1930 US Census perhaps this might indicate a death prior to April, 1930. He was not with the family who presumably arranged his burial at the time of the 1930 census but this does not rule out the fact that he was somewhere else!

If I go to the left column at Susan's URL and begin a new search, I get:


John Stanley Lowe
Birth: 1873
Death: 1930
Burial:
Mountain View Cemetery and Mausoleum
Altadena
Los Angeles County
California, USA

Downloading the image as per DetEcTive's prescription, I agree with 1873, and don't disagree with 1930, although it could be 1938, maybe.

Unless you can connect your John with George or Ellen, I would be inclined to say this isn't your John.

Try down loading the image as a Jpeg - right click > save as then choose your destination.

Although others may have a different opinion, it could be 1928. Certainly 192?


Without reading previous posts thoroughly, are the other names on the headstone known to you?

Many thanks mgnv for your continued very valuable info.

The initial given for deceased John S. Lowe would, I feel, be an added inaccuracy as I have no information that my John S. Lowe had any connection with a lady with the initial "M".

A photograph of the grave which I strongly believe to be the final resting place of my John can be found on:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=7934015&PIpi=749710

Unfortunately it is rather difficult to read the year of death but the name John Stanley Lowe and the birth date of 1872 is clear. I should be grateful for any thoughts on what the year of death might be.

Susan, there's a key near the front of the Aabel volume.
M=initials of spouse; 70=Los Angeles Co.

With 50+US jurisdictions, there's no saying what's on a d.cert.
There's also variation in the UK with it's 3 jurisdictions - e.g., my Christian/Elizabeth's d.cert was issued for Christian Anderson, widow of William Anderson Agr Labourer, d/o William Scott, Farmer (decd) & * Scott MS Rainnie (decd), plus the usual age, time, date, place and cause of death. (Alex didn't recall his gran's forename She was Elizabeth Rainy on her marr entry. ). [This was just to give you a concrete example of how much variation there can be in d.cert's from adjacent jurisdictions.]

As a general procedure for US BMD.certs, go to http://cyndislist.com/us/ and pick state, then drill down.
I'm not sure my recollection's correct nor how current it is, but I recall you can buy BMDs from the state and the county (the UK is similar), but the state is ridiculously back-logged, so you'll want LA Co
http://www.lavote.net/Recorder/BDM_Records.cfm

I was thinking someone b 26/8/1868 would be 66 on 31/1/1935, but like I said, there are some folk who just can't do math.

Many thanks mgnv. The date would appear to be about right but the wrong age, I think, will need further consideration. (Maybe 67 years could have been wrongly transcribed to 76 years if taken from his correct birth date?) I am having difficulty in reading what the initials in the next column to the "S" relate to. After "Lowe John S" the letter "M" appears on the death register. Do you have any ideas?

Is it difficult to obtain a copy death certificate from the USA? All my other ancestors lived in England so this would be my first attempt in the USA. I should be grateful for some guidance. Perhaps the death certificate would be more enlightening or would it be limited in what information it would give.

Thanks for your help.

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_STATES
California, Death Index, 1905-1939 1930-1939 Heslop, Nellie-Rzechtalski, Leon Image 300 of 836
John S Lowe d 31/1/1935 a=76 (so he's 10 y too old)


NB People do make mistakes on d.certs - it is a stressful time for the informant, plus some folk just can't do math.
A group of half a dozen of us spent 3 y looking for Elizabeth Anderson MS Scott's (my ggg gran) d.cert. Someone eventually found it - she was rego'ed by her son, Alex, as Christian Anderson MS Scott. Once I had the d.cert, it was easy to find her grave in Terriff ABD (where she died). She was buried as Elizabeth in the same grave as Alex and Alex's wife and son.

I have now received copy of the birth certificate for "John Samuel Lowe" alias "John Stanley Lowe" and this confirms that he was born on the 26th August, 1868 in Oxford, Oxfordshire. Mgnv, I very much appreciated your suggestion that people rarely changed their actual day of birth but were more inclined to change their year of birth. This has proved to be the case with my "John" as the date he gave on his Declaration of Intention was the 26th August 1972!! Another confirmation that "John Samuel Lowe" and "John Stanley Lowe" were one and the same.

I am still struggling to find John's date of death. I believe he was living with a lady whose father's surname was "Bickley" at that time. It would appear that John Stanley? Lowe born in Oxford on the 26th August 1872? was buried in the Bickley family grave in California. I have seen a photo of this gravestone but unfortunately although his name and 1872 birth year is clear, John's year of death is not very clear - it looks as though it was something like 1936. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

I have now discovered that Gertrude Carlin travelled from New York to Liverpool as a 1st Class passenger on the Mauretania arriving in Liverpool in April 1908. She was described as a US Citizen aged 28years. This followed the death of her husband William H. Carlin on the 15th January 1908. Her surname had been wrongly transcribed on Ancestry "Curlin".

Many thanks Margee for your useful info. The Gertrude Lowe who travelled back to the USA in 1926 with her daughter, Marjorie, is, I believe, the Gertrude I am tracking. Her "husband"? named as John Stanley Lowe was living with Gertrude and Marjorie in Los Angeles at the time of the 1920 Census. So far I cannot find a marriage for Gertrude and John Stanley either in England or America. In the UK 1911 Census Gertrude was named as Gertrude Lowe, wife of John Stanley Lowe but Gertrude called herself Gertrude Carlin (her previous married name) when travelling back to the USA in June 1912 and later in June 1912 John Stanley Lowe was joining Gertrude Carlin in Los Angeles.

At present my gaps that I am trying to fill are:

When did Gertrude travel back to the UK from USA after her marriage to William H. Carlin and before the 1911 UK Census when, I believe she lived with John Stanley Lowe? I need this information to prove that Gertrude Carlin and Gertrude Lowe are one and the same person in 1911.

Was there a marriage between Gertrude Lilian Carlin or Radford? and John Stanley Lowe either in the UK or USA? This is more likely to have been in USA as when he left England in 1911 he described Gertrude Carlin as "Friend" and his closest relative in England his wife, Mrs. Lowe whom he married in Oxford in 1891.

Where was John Stanley Lowe in 1930 and where and when did he die?

The twists and turns of John Stanley Lowe's life is proving confusing, fascinating and frustrating.
Regards, Susan

This is the Gertrude who travelled back to USA with her daughter Marjorie in 1926, As you can see she says she's divorced.

1930 United States Federal Census
about Gertrude Lowe Name: Gertrude Lowe
Gender: Female
Birth Year: abt 1880
Birthplace: England
Race: White
Home in 1930: Los Angeles, Los Angeles, California
View Map
Marital Status: Divorced
Immigration Year: 1905
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England

Household Members: Name Age
Gertrude Lowe 50
Marjorie Lowe 16

Does this make any sense to you?

.William W. Lowe, b. April 1866/7 GA, m. (1) ?, b. Nova Scotia?; (2) 1901 to Gertrude Lilian Radford B:1 Jan 1876 Alabama/AL/AL D: 25 Jul 1955 Los Angeles, California (with father 1880; 1900 Erath Co., TX Census Pct. 5, William widowed, salesman dry goods, with brother Isaac; 1910 Erath Co., TX Census, Gertrude with 4 of 5 children living; 1920 Erath Co., TX Census Pct. 1)

From this site:

http://sites.google.com/site/southerndynasties/family-files/mcconnell/william/elizabeth

But on that record her place of birth is listed as Rest (other) which is what they say for those born in England.
It certainly looks like her with father's surname Radford.

Just realized I hadn't c&p'd the whole thing. Date of death wasn't on it:

LOWE GERTRUDE LILIAN 01/01/1876 RADFORD F REST (OTHER) LOS ANGELES(19) 07/25/1955 79 yrs

Margee, Thanks for the information re Gertrude Lilian Lowe but unfortunately this Gertrude was born in the US and my Gertrude was born in Putney near London, UK.

Regards, Susan

Is this Gertrude's death in California? Father's surname was Radford:

LOWE GERTRUDE LILIAN 01/01/1876 RADFORD F REST (OTHER) LOS ANGELES(19)

I have looked at the US 1910 Census - no sign of Gertie or William H. Carlin but believe I have found her in the UK on the UK 1911 census with John. I am now searching for details of a ship taking her from the US back to the UK sometime between her 1907 marriage and the 1911 Census but so far have had no joy. She could have travelled with the surname of "Carlin", "Radford" or "Lowe". I have found details of her travelling back to the US in June, 1912 under the name of Gertrude Carlin and on John Lowe's passenger list when he travelled to the US in late June 1912 the person named for his journeys end in Los Angeles was Gertrude Carlin.

Since you've got Ancestry access, I'll leave Gertie's 1910 to you - 1910's a lot tougher for me (a non-subscriber) than any other census.
The 1910 does have questions on citizenship.

The websites you have kindly given have proved very informative. Still haven't found a John & Gertie marriage but found a previous marriage for Gertie in 1907. At that time her name was Gertrude Radford and she married a William H. Carlin. Appears she was widowed in 1908 so this marriage could have given her USA citizenship rather than a marriage to John.

I feel I am beginning to understand the complexities of John and his life in the US now. His life in the UK has also proved difficult to follow to say the least!

Very grateful for your help.

Well, sometimes there are free online records that Ancestry don't have - check out:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_STATES

You might also try drilling down at:
http://cyndislist.com/us/

NB I think John & Gertie were marr'd - note in 1930, she says she's divorced.
I don't think it's another smokescreen - I just think he wanted to appear younger.
In 1901, the Canadian census gives the full d.o.b. In 1911, only the month and year appear.
On enlistment in WW1, their online attestation papers also give their d.o.b.
So in my own research, and with helping on the boards, I've seen quite a number of people give false d.o.b's, but I've noticed that they rarely change their b'day, just their y.o.b.

Course, there are some folk who never give a straight answer - I've got censuses and m/d.certs for my gg gran - 7 ages altogether - at least 5 are wrong - there's no b.cert or baptism for her, but the ages she gives are mutually incompatible, except maybe the first 2.