Genealogy Chat

I have found James birth certificate and it states that he was born in Liverpool on the 30th December 1851 to a Patrick Mchugh and Mary Maher. It doesn't state on the certificate where in Ireland Patrick and Mary come from and I can't find them in the census returns only a possible 1851 census. I have found James in an 1871 census in Pemberton Wigan with his sister Julia and his Married sister Ann Moss. Does anyone have any ideas on how I might find the location of birth of Patrick and Mary.

Hi Katherine
probably not yours 1861 as no Julia or Ann
MCHUGH, Patrick Head Married M 45 1816 Tailor
Ireland VIEW
MCHUGH, Margaret Wife Married F 44 1817 House Keeper
Sling VIEW
MCHUGH, John Son Unmarried M 22 1839 Tailor
Ireland VIEW
MCHUGH, Bridget Daughter Unmarried F 18 1843 Winder
Sling VIEW
MCHUGH, Terence Son Unmarried M 17 1844 Tailor
Sling VIEW
MCHUGH, James Son Unmarried M 8 1853 Scholar
Ashton Under Lyne VIEW
MCHUGH, Margaret Daughter Unmarried F 5 1856 Scholar
Ashton Under Lyne VIEW
Piece:
2984 Folio:
76 Page:
10 Registration District:
Ashton-Under-Lyne

Civil Parish:
Ashton Under Lyne Municipal Borough:
Ashton Under Lyne Address:
Cotton Street, Ashton Under Lyne County:
Lancashire

Katherine,

What is Patrick McHugh's occupation on the birth certificate?

According to the 1871 census Daughter Ann appears to have been born in Liverpool c1839 and indeed married there in 1859. As James was born there in 1851 and Julia there in 1855 the family presumably were reasonably established in the city so the most likely place to expect them to be in 1861.

Have you found the Moss family in 1861, to see who they are living with?

(I had high hopes of this family, but not correct: Julie McWhugh

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1841
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MCHUGH Patrick MAHER Mary Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended Manchester MCR_RM/6/141

So which parent is Ann the daughter of?

Groom's Name: James Moss
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Ann Mchugh
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 26 Sep 1859
Marriage Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Groom's Father's Name: John Moss
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: Patrick Mchugh
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00714-5
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1656680
Reference Number: it 3, p 91, no 182

Groom's Name: Patrick Mchugh
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Mary Maher
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 31 Oct 1853 <<<?????
Marriage Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Groom's Father's Name: Dudley Mchugh
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: Edward Maher
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Widowed <<<<<<<
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00714-9
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 93925
Reference Number: it 360 P 194 No 388

Hello everyone, thanks for the replies ::-D On James birth cert it states that Patrick was a builder but he could have done other kinds of work? I have looked at the Moss family and the only thing I have found is that Ann, who married James Moss at St peters in Seel St in 1859 was born in Ireland abt !838 according to the 1861 census when they lived at Walton-le-Dale.
The only Julia Mchugh I have found other than the one on the 1871 census lived at Howard St in Liverpool but it's the wrong one. I'm stumped at the marriage of patrick and Mary as my Grt grt Grandfather James was born in 1851 and his parents were listed as Patrick Mchugh and Mary Maher, living at 1 Court Spitalfields Liverpool.. I can't see them marrying in 1853?
James was living in Wigan in 1871 as he married a Frances Molyneux in 1873. It seems that James was boarding with her family at the time and his father was down as a builder on the marriage cert as well.
I could only find one James Mchugh born in Liverpool in 1851 with a father called Patrick and then found his mother was Mary Maher (though it could have been misspelled). I couldn't find any entries for 1861 which included Patrick, Mary James and Julia.
Thank you all for trying x

Oh! It also stated on James marriage cert that Patrick was deceased in 1873. I haven't found his death record either.

Just in case you haven't seen baptism cert. Godparents were Thomas Hoff and Mary ? Carole.

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
about James McHugh Name: James McHugh
Birth Date: 30 Dec 1851
Baptism Date: 11 Jan 1852
Parish: St Nicholas
Father's Name: Patrick Mchugh
Mother's Name: Mary Maher

Vera

Wow! Thanks Vera2010. I haven't seen any baptism cert. Thank you so much. What else does it say?? Is there one for Julia as well??

I'll have a look for Julia. Doesn't say much more but can send you original. may need you e mail by pm as genes attach goesn't always work for me.

Vera

Godparents Patrick Skelly and a Catherine G? cant read. Will attach original.

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
about Julia McCugh Name: Julia McCugh
Birth Date: 9 Apr 1855
Baptism Date: 29 Apr 1855
Parish: St Nicholas
Father's Name: Patrick Mccugh
Mother's Name: Mary Maher

Vera

Thank you again Vera. I have pmd my email address for you :-)

Wonder if this is Patrick with 1st wife. Note that there is a child named Dudley. Same name given for Patrick's father on 1853 marriage Beverley W posted.

All born in Ireland.

Patrick a labourer.

1841 England Census
about Pat McHugh Name: Pat McHugh
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Liverpool
Hundred: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Dale Street
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 555
Book: 3
Folio: 15
Page Number: 22

Household Members: Name Age
Pat McHugh 36
Bridget McHugh 39
John McHugh 17
Biddy McHugh 15
Patrick McHugh 18
Dudley McHugh 8
Essay McHugh 6
Anne McHugh 4

Vera

?????
Patt married. Labourer on a ?farm.

1851 England Census
about Patt Mc Hugh Name: Patt Mc Hugh
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1804
Relation: Lodger
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Mayo, Ireland

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: Vauxhall
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Howard Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 1h
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 17
Piece: 2178
Folio: 205
Page Number: 6

Household Members: Name Age
John Kelly 45
Mary Kelly 36
Mary Kelly 14
Bridgt Kelly 6
Patt Kelly 12
Thos Kelly 10
John Kelly 2
Patt Mc Hugh 47

plus others

Vera

I have seen those entries before but ignored them as I hadn't thought about Patrick being married more than once. I will have to check if Bridget the wife in 1841 turns up in consequent census returns. On the baptism certs you sent me, Mary is listed as his wife in 1851 and with being Catholic I can't see them fibbing and then getting wed in 1853 but stranger things have happened. It is strange though, that the only Julia is living in Howard Street in 1861 and I checked out a couple of the Godparents names for both James and Julia. Patrick Skelly and Mary Carole and found both living at different addresses in Howard Street in 1851?

Katherine

Sorry about the previous Kathleen although both lovely names.

I don't think a marriage cert would have been asked for before a baptism but could not be 100%. I know in Scotland parents were asked date of marriage and I can tell you my ggmother fibbed at least three times, giving three different churches for each child. I think it was to avoid the dreaded word on the birth cert. A lot fits but you have to be sure. Pity we can't find them altogether in 1861. I will keep looking, Can you put up that Julia in 1861 or give more details as she would only have been 10 then. Is she with her family?

Off out to the shops now. I'm always last minute.

Regards

Vera

It's alright Vera my mother's name is Kathleen :-)

I checked out Julia from 1861 and her Mother is listed as Catherine. Dead end again .
I have checked out Bridget but can't find a trace after 1841 and have found a possible death in 1847 in Liverpool and another in 1850 so It's very possible that my Patrick is the Pat with Bridget on the census returns and thanks to BeverleyW for putting the marriage up even with a dodgy date. I will check that out also. It's those elusive census returns that have done for me.

I'm off for a night out so am going to get ready shortly

Thanks again

katherine x