Genealogy Chat

and ancestry has just gone down, so I can't do any searches on there for a little while





sylvia

This is a funny family!


I get so far, then come to a halt!!


Mary Ann and Thomas Miller seem to have had at least 2 more children ........ yet I cannot find their marriage!


Births Sep 1861 (>99%)

MILLER Robert Henry West Derby 8b 439


Deaths Mar 1862 (>99%)

MILLER Robert Henry W.Derby 8b 397


from familysearch:-

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for Robert Henry Miller

Name: Robert Henry Miller
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 22 Sep 1861
Baptism/Christening Place: Holy Trinity, Wavertree, Lancashire, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Thomas Miller
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Mary Anne
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13575-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1068856
Reference Number: item 2 p 98


same place as Mary Ann b.ca 1860 was baptized.


Plus also this baptism

Name: Lydia Elizabeth Miller
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 1857
Baptism/Christening Place: WAVERTREE, HOLY TRINITY BTS, LANCASHIRE, ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Thomas Miller
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Mary Anne
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13575-2
System Origin: England-VR
Source Film Number: 1068856
Reference Number: - 2:328L8RN


Births Jun 1857 (>99%)

Miller Lydia Elizabeth W Derby 8b 442



sylvia

Looking for baptisms of the Miller children, to find name of father, I found this baptism for Mary Ann Miller b.ca 1860

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Mary Ann Miller

Name: Mary Ann Miller
Birth Date: abt 1860
Baptism Date: 10 Jun 1860
Parish: Wavertree Holy Trinity
Father's Name: Thomas Miller
Mother's name: Mary Ann Miller

Address:- Wavertree
Father occupation:- Cab Driver




sylvia

Here's James Roulston and Mary Ann, with the Miller children in 1871


1871 Census

Name: James Rolston
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary H Rolston
Gender: Male
Where born: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
Civil parish:Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin

James Rolston 38 Lithographer
Mary H Rolston 38 b.ca 1833, Liverpool
Mary H Miller 11 b.ca 1860, Liverpool
Susanna Miller 8 b.ca 1863, Liverpool
John Miller 5 b.ca 1866, Liverpool
Elizabeth Miller 4 b.ca 1867, Liverpool
Richard Miller 2 b.ca 1869, Liverpool

Address:- 6 Ileal (?? sp) Square, Cazneau St



sylvia

did she die torrentine then?? or can you find a death certificated for her?

This is possibly Archibald James Roulston's marriage to Mary Ann

Marriages Mar 1871 (>99%)

Miller Mary Ann Liverpool 8b 175
Roulston James Liverpool 8b 175



and from ancestry

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921 about James Roulston

Name: James Roulston
Age: Full Age
Marriage Date: 23 Jan 1871
Parish: Liverpool St Paul
Spouse's Name: Mary Anne Miller
Father's Name: Oliver Roulston
Spouse Father's Name: Robert Mulloy


from image:-

James
Of Full Age (ie, over 21)
Single
Occupation:- Lithographic Draftsman
Address:- Roseomon (??) St
Father occupation:- Baker

Mary Ann
Of Full Age
Widow
no occupation shown
Address:- Peel Square
Father occupation:- Tailor

Witnesses:- Margaret Smeddles and Richard Battersby



Mary Ann's maiden name was apparently Mulloy.

She then married a Miller.

She was widowed,

and married James Roulston



sylvia

We was told by the man in the record department that Catherine Torrentine died 1899 buired along with Hannah Doris Harris b1906 died 1906 and Elizabeth Jane Hindley who was Millar

But someone posted previous that it was a Mary Ann Torrentine in th grave died 1899.

I would of know a Mary Ann But it makes sence that Elizabeth Jane Hindley nee Millar would be buried with her mum which would be Mary Ann

And how did Mary die Torrentine ?? 1899

Nothing seems to make any sense!!!!


You asked:-

"How Old is Mary Ann then. She is down as being buried in the grave. Not Catherine torrintine like it says on the deed"


According to the 1891 Census, Mary Ann was born ca 1837, and was 54 on that census.

How did you find out that it was Mary Ann Torrentine in the grave not Catherine???



sylvia

So would Molloy be her maiden name?? and does that mean Elizabeth is Irish thats what i have been told?

and Archibald was born in Liverpool ..... this is his baptism from ancestry


Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Archibald James Roulston

Name: Archibald James Roulston
Birth Date: abt 1871
Baptism Date: 31 Dec 1871
Parish: Liverpool All Saints
Father's Name: Archibald James Roulston
Mother's name: Mary Anne Roulston

from image:-

Address:- 9 Peel Square
Father occupation:- Lithographer




sylvia

You mention a william HARRIS as a whitness could he maybe have something to do with the child in the grave her name being HARRIS to.

I have Richard down as being the father of Mary, John, Susanna, Elizabeth, an Richard earliest being 1860's 1869.

How Old is Mary Ann then. She is down as being buried in the grave. Not Catherine torrintine like it says on the deed.

Oliver Roulston was born in Dublin, Ireland

son of James Roulston and Mary Anne Molloy ...... which is yet another name!


Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 about Oliver Roulston

Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 about Oliver Roulston

Name: Oliver Roulston
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 12 Nov 1873
Birth Place: No 1 North City, Dub, Ireland
Baptism Place: No 1 North City, Dub, Ireland
Father's Name: James Roulston
Mother's name: Mary Anne Molloy
FHL Film Number: 255889


Dub = Dublin, Ireland



sylvia

This is Thomas and Margaret's certificate from the Parish Register (from ancestry)


Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921 about Thomas Hambleton

Name: Thomas Hambleton
Birth Year: abt 1851
Age: 28
Marriage Date: 29 Dec 1879
Parish: Everton St Peter
Spouse's Name: Margaret Ann Millar
Father's Name: Abraham Hambleton
Spouse Father's Name: Richard Millar

from image:-

Thomas
Widower
Address:- 4 Eccles Terrace
Occupation:- Carter
Father occupation:- Stone mason

Margaret Ann
Spinster
Age 21
Address: 8 Iliad Street
Father occupation:- Ship Carpenter

Witnesses:- William Harris and Ann Jane Lister




so Margaret's name seems to be spelled MillAr quite consistently on official documents





sylvia

So what is Elizabeth Jane Miller to Mary??

and what her maiden name was a s i cant find a margaret miller.

Mary married previous to a James John Rolston and had 2 kids called Oliver and Archibald Rolston

can any one help me as to why a hannah doris harris 4months old is also in the grave where is here connection?

And robbert pass?

Thomas Hambleton married Margaret Ann Millar, according to lancs bmd


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1879

HAMBLETON Thomas MILLAR Margaret Ann Everton, St. Peter Liverpool 2085WD/6/324


and from ancestry:-

Thomas Hambleton Oct-Nov-Dec 1879 West Derby Lancashire
Margaret Ann Millar Oct-Nov-Dec 1879 West Derby Lancashire




sylvia

Is this the 1891 Census on which you say you found Mary Torrinetine

She is with Thomas Hambleton's household ........ Richard F Hughes lives in a separate house, 8 Sackville Street ..... shown by the double black line between his name and Thomas's

This is from ancestry ...... and Mary's name has been transcribed as Forrenetive ..... which in fact is what it might be!!

1891 Census

Name: Thomas Hambleton
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret A Hambleton
Gender: Male
Where born: Alston Field, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Everton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: South Everton

Thomas Hambleton 40
Margaret A Hambleton 35 b.ca 1856, Liverpool
Richard Hambleton 11
Sine Hambleton 7
Emma Hambleton 1
Mary Forrinetive 54 b.ca 1837, Liverpool, Widow, Mother-in-law, Tailoress
Richard Miller 22 b.ca 1869, Liverpool, Brother-in-law, Labourer
Elizabeth J Miller 23 b.ca 1868, Liverpool, Sister-in-law, Cigar Maker
Archibald Roulston 21 b.ca 1870, Liverpool, Brother-in-law, Mill Hand
Oliver Roulston 17 b.ca 1874, Ireland, Brother-in-law, Cork Cutter
Saint Walworth 59 Boarder <<<< probably Samuel (written as Sam with superscript L)

Address:- 10 Sackville Street



sylvia

from lancsbmd

George Hindley's marriage to Elizabeth Jane ......................

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1899

HINDLEY George MILLER Elizabeth J Liverpool, St. Michael in the City Liverpool 2054LP/11/49



so they married at St Michael in the City.




sylvia

WE FOUND DEED TO A GRAVE PLOT WHERE A CATHERINE ? TORRINETINE d1899
A HANNAH DORIS HARRIS b1906 d1906 AND

ELIZABETH JANE HINDLEY

ELIZABETH IS MY G.G.GRANDMA HER MAIDEN NAME IS MILLER. HER SON GEORGE WILLIAM HINDLEY WAS PASSED ON THE DEED FROM A

ROBERT PASS. WHO DIED 1909

I HAVE FOUND A MARY TORRINETINE LIVING WITH ELIZABETH JANE MILLER IN 1891 BEFORE ELIZABETH HAD MARRIED HINDLEY. MARY WAS DOWN AS BEING MOTHER IN LAW TO EITHER A THOMAS HAMBLETON OR RICHARD F HUGHES. AND WIDOWED, I THINK SHE MARRIED A ROLSTON ASWELL BUT NOT SURE. i THINK MARY WAS MILLER TO BEGIN WITH.

I ALSO FOUND A RECORD OF A HANNAH TORRENTINE MARRYING A WILLIAM HUGHES IN 1866 ARE THESE CONNECTED SOMEHOW AS THEY WHERE ALL LIVING AROUND EACH OTHER

ALSO A HANNAH HARRIS MARRYING A ALEXANDER LEVER IN 1886 I THINK AND THE WHITNESSES FOR THERE WEDDING IS A WILLIAM MILLER AND MARY MILLER IS THIS A CONNECTION SOME HOW.

CAN SOMEONE HELP ME JOIN THE DOTS AND FIGURE OUT WHY THERE ALL BURIED TOGETHER


sorry its in capitals

Do you realise that two other GR members have you in their trees?

Have you given them permission to add your details to their trees?