Genealogy Chat

Looking for baptisms of the Miller children, to find name of father, I found this baptism for Mary Ann Miller b.ca 1860

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Mary Ann Miller

Name: Mary Ann Miller
Birth Date: abt 1860
Baptism Date: 10 Jun 1860
Parish: Wavertree Holy Trinity
Father's Name: Thomas Miller
Mother's name: Mary Ann Miller

Address:- Wavertree
Father occupation:- Cab Driver




sylvia

This is a funny family!


I get so far, then come to a halt!!


Mary Ann and Thomas Miller seem to have had at least 2 more children ........ yet I cannot find their marriage!


Births Sep 1861 (>99%)

MILLER Robert Henry West Derby 8b 439


Deaths Mar 1862 (>99%)

MILLER Robert Henry W.Derby 8b 397


from familysearch:-

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for Robert Henry Miller

Name: Robert Henry Miller
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 22 Sep 1861
Baptism/Christening Place: Holy Trinity, Wavertree, Lancashire, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Thomas Miller
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Mary Anne
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13575-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1068856
Reference Number: item 2 p 98


same place as Mary Ann b.ca 1860 was baptized.


Plus also this baptism

Name: Lydia Elizabeth Miller
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 1857
Baptism/Christening Place: WAVERTREE, HOLY TRINITY BTS, LANCASHIRE, ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Thomas Miller
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Mary Anne
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13575-2
System Origin: England-VR
Source Film Number: 1068856
Reference Number: - 2:328L8RN


Births Jun 1857 (>99%)

Miller Lydia Elizabeth W Derby 8b 442



sylvia

and ancestry has just gone down, so I can't do any searches on there for a little while





sylvia

Lydia's baptism from ancestry


Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Lydia Elizabeth Miller

Name: Lydia Elizabeth Miller
Birth Date: abt 1857
Baptism Date: 5 Jul 1857
Parish: Wavertree Holy Trinity
Father's Name: Thomas Miller
Mother's name: Mary Anne Miller

from image:-

Address:- Wavertree
Father occupation:- Cab Driver





and ancestry has shut down on me again!!




sylvia

I have to go to bed!!!



Hopefully, someone will be able to make some sense of what I've found


As I see it

Mary Ann(e) Molloy (or Mulloy) married, legally or common-law, Thomas Miller, Cab Driver

Mary Ann and Thomas had 5-7 children

Thomas disappears about 1869/70


Mary Ann Miller marries John Roulston/Rolston 23 Jan 1871

Archibald Roulston was born in Liverpool, baptized 31 Dec 1871

Oliver Roulston was born 12 Nov 1873, Dublin, Ireland

John Roulston was seemingly born Londonderry, Ireland



when did Thomas Miller die / move out?

Were Thomas Miller and Mary Ann Molloy really married?

When did John Roulston die?


and what really was Mary's surname on the 1891 Census?!





sylvia

This is the death I posted on page 1 - get the death certificate for information:
Deaths Jun 1899
Torrintine Mary Ann 58 W. Derby 8b 252

????
Marriages Sep 1878
xxx MILLER Mary Ann W. Derby 8b 921
PIERCE William West Derby 8b 921
STEPHENS Marian W. Derby 8b 921
xxx TORRENTINE Samuel W. Derby 8b 921

So Mary Ann molloy never married Richard?? Because that's who I have down as Father off margaret, Mary, john, Elizabeth jane, susanna and Richard.

Could the Mary 1860 be Marys anna daughter???

So that's where torretine Fits in?? :-(

"We was told by the man in the record department that Catherine Torrentine died 1899 buired along with Hannah Doris Harris b1906 died 1906 and Elizabeth Jane Hindley who was Millar"

which record department was this Kaylee

Is the cemetery you are talking about West Derby Municipal cemetery? If it is I have found them very helpful with grave searches.

Kaylee,
Have you got any birth, marriage or death certificates to have some proof of your ancestors, and so that you systematically work your way back?
Jumping around is very confusing, and getting some of the certificates would remove some doubt.

Where you have said that George W Hindley bought the grave deed off a dead Robert Pass, was the transaction actually in 1916, or just used then, and did the dead Robert Pass have a living relative also called Robert?

Am so greatfull for all your help Thanks again

But all i knew of my family regarding the hindleys was that my grandad George William Thomas born 1936 died 1998 and that he had 3 sisters and was married to Johanna Gemmell.

His dad was Then called George W hindley Who married Elizabeth Jane and had george and thomas.

George then married again and had other kids

And thats honestly all i knew untill i started checking records and asking yourself, but the hindleys came from manchester/wigan/warrington ways but dont no if thats true because noone in the family has got a clue.

It is West Dreby yes but she is buried in Everon which is the same area back in them days.

Regarding the deed george w hindley got it when he was 16 and his mum Elizabeth Jane died 1916 and thats when he got it.

This Hannah Doris Harris i think has something to do with someone either a cousin or something i cant find any info on Harris.

Where is Richard pass buried then.

????
Marriages Sep 1878
xxx MILLER Mary Ann W. Derby 8b 921
PIERCE William West Derby 8b 921
STEPHENS Marian W. Derby 8b 921
xxx TORRENTINE Samuel W. Derby 8b 921

what does this mean

It means this is the marriage

Marriages Sep 1878
xxx MILLER Mary Ann W. Derby 8b 921
xxx TORRENTINE Samuel W. Derby 8b 921

Ignore the other two names

looking at that last summary Kaylee, you seem to have skipped a generation with the wives

George William Thomas's mother not wife was a Gemmel. Neither can I find 3 sisters for G W T who seems to be the only child registered with a mother's maiden name of Gemmel

Births Jun 1936 (>99%)
HINDLEY George W T Gemmel Liverpool S 8b 28

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1925
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HINDLEY George W GEMMELL Johanna Everton, St. Polycarp Liverpool 2124WD/3/36

you did say earlier that it was George W who was married to Johanna so you might like to amend that summary before you get yourself too confused

Kaylee


I don't think there is much else we can do for you ........ you have to BUY some certificates to prove what we have found.


We are only members like yourself, although with more experience and knowledge of many other sites where it is possible to find bits of information.

We can try to put those bits of information together to make some sort of sense, but it is only when you buy certificates that you get the truth ....................... truth that will prove or not what we have hypothesised on this thread.



You have been given most of the information for buying certificates .......... start by buying the most recent one that you do not have, and work back from that.



This is the best site from which to buy certificates, each one will cost £9.25 (including shipping costs). You do all the ordering online. You do have to register with the site, but it is free to do so.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/


Some record offices will also sell copies of certificates, many will not. I've heard different offices can charge different amounts, but all will included P&P



Never buy from any other site, as they all charge much much more.


For example, I suggest that you could start with the birth certificate for your gt grandad, George W Hindley, born 1900 ......... that will tell you his mother's maiden name.

Then you could buy the marriage certificate for George Hindley and Elizabeth Jane


and so on.




sylvia

re-reading your posts Kaylee I am not sure if you understand the way freebmd records are listed.

Before 1911 the records would look like the above Miller /Torrentine marriage.

After 1911 the surname of the spouse was included on the index for marriages

Marriages Dec 1916 (>99%)
Hindley George Taylor W. Derby <<< spouse name = Taylor

Births 1916
Hindley Hugh Tweedie W.Derby 8b 718 <<< Hugh Hindley's mother's maiden name was Tweedie

hope this perhaps helps


incidentally I think George William was born early 1901 not 1900. This is the only birth registration in the West Derby area

Births Mar 1901 (>99%)
Hindley George William W. Derby 8b 424

George William was born december 1900 and christened in the january 1901

That now makes sence i didnt know how to read it

am i rite with this mary ann??

Mary Ann Mulloy
England Marriages, 1538–1973
birth: 1836
marriage: 26 Jul 1857 Walton-?On -?The Hill,? Lancashire,? England
parents: Robert Mulloy
spouse: Richard Miller


groom's name: Richard Miller
groom's birth date: 1836
groom's age: 21
bride's name: Mary Ann Mulloy
bride's birth date: 1836
bride's age: 21
marriage date: 26 Jul 1857
marriage place: Walton-On -The Hill, Lancashire, England
groom's father's name: John Miller
bride's father's name: Robert Mulloy
indexing project (batch) number: I07043-1
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 2147881

SYLVIA

As I see it

Mary Ann(e) Molloy (or Mulloy) married, legally or common-law, Thomas Miller, Cab Driver

Mary Ann and Thomas had 5-7 children

Thomas disappears about 1869/70


Mary Ann Miller marries John Roulston/Rolston 23 Jan 1871

Archibald Roulston was born in Liverpool, baptized 31 Dec 1871

Oliver Roulston was born 12 Nov 1873, Dublin, Ireland

John Roulston was seemingly born Londonderry, Ireland



when did Thomas Miller die / move out?

Were Thomas Miller and Mary Ann Molloy really married?

When did John Roulston die?


and what really was Mary's surname on the 1891 Census?!


Regarding that if Richard married Mary Ann Molloy 1857 she then had Margaret, Mary in 1860, John, Susanna, Elizabeth Jane, Richard all to Richard,

If The Thomas Miller married Mary Ann - could it be Richards middle namme maybe

just to give you the details of the Mary Ann above from lan-opc.org.uk which gives a little more info

Baptisms: 8 Dec 1834 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann Mulloy - Child of Robert Mulloy & Mary Ann
Abode: Baptist St.
Occupation: Tailor
Baptised by: Cecil Wray Curate
Register: Baptisms 1834, Page 388, Entry 3100
Source: LDS Film 2045907

Marriage: 26 Jul 1857 St Michael in the Hamlet, Aigburth, Lancashire, England
Richard Miller - 21 Shipwright Bachelor of Hill St
Mary Ann Mulloy - 21 Spinster of Hill St
Groom's Father: John Miller, Shipwright
Bride's Father: Robert Mulloy, Tailor
Witness: John Miller; Elizabeth Smith
Married by Licence by: William Clementson, Incumbent
Register: Marriages 1855 - 1860, Page 95, Entry 189
Source: LDS Film 2147881

just to put all the details together - the next marriage

Marriage: 23 Jan 1871 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James Roulston - Full Lithographic draftsman Bachelor of Roscommon Streetj
Mary Anne Miller - (X), Full Widow of Peel Square
Groom's Father: Oliver Roulston, Baker
Bride's Father: Robert Mulloy, Tailor
Witness: Margaret Smeddles; Richard Battersby
Married by Banns by: James L. Cotter First Minister
Register: Marriages 1866 - 1878, Page 99, Entry 198

Could you check the 1891 cencus in liverpool there is a Elizabeth Jane Miller, and other siblings down as being sister in law to head of house who is

THOMAS HAMBLETON and MARGARET HAMBLETON who i think is Elizabeth Janes sister,
and there is a Mother inlaw down to as Mary Torrentine am i right in thinking that she married again.

Elizabeth Jane Miller didnt marry my G.Grandad George Hindley untill 1899 is that right?

Im also having trouble finding later relatives

my dad David Hindley 1963 son of Geowrge W T Hindley 1936 wants to know who Mothered the 22 kids That
Thomas Hindley 1908/1909 brother of George W Hindley 1900 had and who where all based liverpool
we know that he had a George Hindley to That went on to have another George Hindley that married Ann Flannery am guesing due to records
that match what my dad says
he knows he had a cousin george around same age as my dad and
His dad (george w t hindley had a cousin George Hindley)

so who is George W Hindleys Brothers Family??