Genealogy Chat

Hi. I'm looking for Alfred James born about 1870 in Birmingham To George James. I know George was a Brick maker / Layer but the only George I can find in 1871 and 1881 had a son called Charles who fits the age.

There is a record of a Frederick Charles James born 3rd Q 1870 in Birmingham.

My question is If you were called Frederick would you shorten your name to Alfred?

Thank you.

No

Alfred is a name in its own right but both could be shortened to Fred although Alfred's were normally shortened to Alf or Alfie

Where have you got this info from? A marriage Cert?

There is a tree on ancestry that says his name was Alfred frederick Charles James and his father was George james 1831

Is it your tree?

I assume you have a marriage cert for Alfred, hence having his father's name?
Do you have an occupation for Alfred?
How do you know where Alfred was born?
Jan

These are the address's given for 1871/81 from this tree I looked at the 71 address and the hemmings family were living there?

1871
Age: 1 Residence
41 Leopold Street, Aston, Birmingham
1881
Age: 11 Residence
Court No.8 Upper Highgate Street, Aston, Birmingham

Is this the marriage He was in the Army since 1888

Marriages Mar 1892 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HUBBARD Minnie Louisa Farnham 2a 123
JAMES Alfred Farnham 2a 123

Death

Deaths Mar 1927 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

James Alfred 56 Wolverhampton 6b 968

Wonder where those extra names came from?

There is this birth also

Births Sep 1870 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JAMES Alfred Aston 6d 327

British Army Service Records 1760-1915
First name(s): Alfred

Last name: JAMES

Calculated year of birth: 1870

Parish of birth: Birmingham

Town of birth: Birmingham

County of birth: Warwickshire

Age at attestation: 18 years 3 months

Attestation date: 8 December 1888

Attestation corps: King's Royal Rifle Corps

Attestation soldier number: 75781


So his marriage, death and army records he was Alfred...atill wondering where the Frederick Charles came from unless its this censis you have found?

here he is on the 1911 and difrent birthplace
JAMES, Alfred Head Married M 39 1872 Groom Gardener Domestic Wolverhampton Staffordshire VIEW
JAMES, Minnie Louisa Wife Married
20 years F 38 1873 Westminster Kent VIEW
JAMES, Alfred Son Single M 19 1892 Sewing Machine Fitter Aldershott Hampshire VIEW
JAMES, Minnie Louisa Daughter Single F 17 1894 Nurse Girl Aldershott Hampshire VIEW
JAMES, Robert Henry Son Single M 2 1909 Nil VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
17121 Reference:
RG14PN17121 RG78PN1054 RD369 SD7 ED10 SN236

Registration District:
Wolverhampton Sub District:
Bilston Enumeration District:
10 Parish:
Bilston

Address:
5 Arthog Cottages Lewis Street Bilston County:
Staffordshire

married 20 years 3 children and their birth place ties with the Farnham marriage

1901 still says b Wolverhamtpton
JAMES, Alfred Head Married M 30 1871 Pork Butcher
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire VIEW
JAMES, Minnie Wife Married F 30 1871
Westminster
London VIEW
JAMES, Alfred Son M 8 1893
Aldershot
Hampshire VIEW
JAMES, Minnie Daughter F 6 1895
Aldershot
Hampshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
2682 Folio:
109 Page:
4 Registration District:
Wolverhampton

Civil Parish:
Wolverhampton Municipal Borough:
Address:
323, Bilston Road, Wolverhampton County:
Staffordshire

maybe his birth wasnt registered it wasnt compulsory till 1875

1891
JAMES, Alfred Single M 20 1871 Driver I Battery R H A
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
567 Folio:
91 Page:
12 Registration District:
Farnham

Civil Parish:
Aldershot Municipal Borough:
Address:
Aldershot County:
Surrey

WOW! you've all been very busy. . . Thank you.

brummiejan. Yes I've got his marriage, war and death records. All of them have father George James marriage one has George as a Brickmaker. His war record has his birth parish as Birmingham, Warwickshire.

jax. Yes, this is my tree. I added all the names to remind me to look for them all lol

Shirley. Thank you I've got all those records but as you can see there's no Alfred James before 1891 But the only George James brickmaker/layer has a son called Charles who fits the age group. and you might have noticed Alfred named one of his sons Frederick.

So all in all folks do you think I'm on the right track? Alfred was born Frederick Charles and they called him Charles then for some reason he changed it to Alfred?

Thank you all so much for your help :-D

PS.
jax. . . I've got a copy of that birth record and it's not the right one. . .I was so disappointed when It came. I'm going to have to gamble more money on the Frederick Charles birth record :-(

He seems to be consistently Alfred and in the 1911 he doesnt give any second names for himself even though he has listed wife Minnie Louisa.

i am more inclined to think his birth wasnt registered ..

Do you know of any siblings born after 1875 ? their births should be registered and you can get his parents names from one of those certs

Hi Shirley. I'm starting to think you might be right and he wasn't registered. But unfortunately it doesn't explain his absence from the 1871 and 1881 census. I've got his marriage, death and war records but all have very little info on them! lol

If those children were born in Aldershot I'm not seeing their births registered in Farnham district.

Closest for Minnie is this:

Births Jun 1894
Roberts Minnie Louisa Farnham 2a 112

I can't find a Minnie Roberts on any censuses so this makes me think she could be yours.

and this:

Births Sep 1892
Roberts Alfred James Farnham 2a 104

Perhaps we should look for him under Roberts in 1871 and 1881?

Rose

You said "Alfred named one of his son's Frederick".

I'm not seeing a Frederick in 1901 or 1911.

Rose

There is always achance that Alfred was born out of wedlock, registered in his mothers name.

in answer to your original question,i think Alfred may well be shortened to Fred, as well as Alf sometimes

Hi Rose.

Thank you for your help.

Alfred and Minnie's children were Alfred Frederick James b Q1 1893 Portsea Island Minnie Louisa James Q3 Aldershot and Robert Henry James b 1st April 1909 Wolverhampton

The only info I have for Alfreds parents is his fathers name and occupation. George James, brick maker/layer. On his war records it also states he was born in 1870 in Birmingham. I have him in the 1891 1901 and 1911 census but there's no trace of him in the 1871 or 1881 census which is why I wondered if he was christened something else.

Penny thank you for your help. You may well be right I will try and look at all Alfreds born in 1870 in B'ham. . . . Might take a while thought! lol

Dottie,

Do you actually have the birth certificates for Alfred and Minnie? The only birth showing on FreeBMD is for Robert Henry James.

There is no birth for an Alfred Frederick James.

On the census records he is born in Aldershot so a Portsmouth area birth seems unlikely. That, plus there is a Alfred James born in Portsmouth showing on the 1901 census, so that birth you say was in Q1 1893 can't be yours.

There is also no birth for a Minnie Louisa James. Aldershot district didn't exist until the 1930s, so any birth should be in Farnham district. I think you really need to order the cert for the Minnie Louisa Roberts.

Rose

Hi Rose. I'm not sure where you're getting the surname Roberts from? My Minnie Louisa James was born Q3 1897 Portsea Island Hampshire Volume 2b page 418 on the 1901 and 1911 Census they've put Aldershot, Hampshire. Alfred Frederick James has the Born in the parish of Aldershot on his war records. Robert Henry was my husbands grandfather. I'm trying to find their father Alfred James born 1870 in Birmingham to George James who was a bricklayer

Ali