Genealogy Chat

Hello everyone,

Completely new to this, so please forgive me if my question is a little naive.

My family tree traces back to an "Elizabeth Ferns" c1861 who is listed as being 'Born at Sea". Another document traces back to her but is named "Donall Ferns".

We're having fun creating various scenarios as to how Elizabeth could have been born at sea- but my question is this: Is this traceable from this point? Any clues as to how to proceed would be hugely appreciated.

Best wishes,

Paul

Hi Paul.
Just to start off with-where /what documents are you referring to? Census? What area?

There are some births at sea listed on Findmy Past,but I'm not seeing a Ferns pop up.

Perhaps if you gave us some background info it would help.

More questions than clues...sorry!!!

Maureen

Thanks for the reply, Maureen.

I'm looking at the 1911 Census, household information.

Address is 85 Hatherton Lane, Walsall.

Elizabeth c1861 has birthplace listed as "Cape of Good Hope at sea"
George c1861 is the husband, strangely crossed out on the census

George, Edward, Lucy and Lewis the 4 children.

Any advice on where to go from here?

Paul

Ah,OK-just putting this here for ref:
1911 census transcription details for: 57 Leamore Lane Leamore Near Walsall
RG14PN17151 RG78PN1056 RD370 SD2 ED9 SN106


Reg. District: Walsall Sub District: Bloxwich
Parish: Walsall Enum. District: 9
Address: 57 Leamore Lane Leamore Near Walsall
County: Staffordshire
FERNS, Elizabeth Head Married
31 years F 50 1861 Cape of Good H At Sea
FERNS, George Son M 22 1889 Labour Blast Furnace Staffs Leamore
FERNS, Edward Son M 17 1894 Labour Blast Furnace Staffs Leamore
FERNS, Lucy Daughter F 13 1898 School Staffs Leamore
FERNS, Lewis Son M 11 1900 School Staffs Leamore


Any idea what Elizabeth's maiden name was??

Maureen

No idea of her maiden name - this is where I've hot a brick wall.

What's even more confusing (or perhaps a clue to the more experienced?) is that in the 1901 census she's listed as Donall M Ferns. Obviously a name change at some stage?

Paul

One step at a time.

For ref again:

1901 census transcription details for: 85, Hatherton Lane, Walsall, Town

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 2696 Folio: 65 Page: 14


Reg. District: Walsall Sub District: Bloxwich
Parish: Walsall Enum. District: 6
Ecclesiastical District: Blakenall Heath Christ Church City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 85, Hatherton Lane, Walsall, Town
County: Staffordshire
FERNS, George Head Married M 42 1859 Blast Furnace Labourer
Rochdale Lancashire
FERNS, Donall M Wife Married F 40 1861
On Vessell At Cape of Good Hope
FERNS, John Son Single M 18 1883 Brickyard Labourer
Bloxwich Staffordshire
FERNS, Clara N Daughter Single F 15 1886 Coal Bag Maker
Bloxwich Staffordshire
FERNS, George Son M 12 1889
Bloxwich Staffordshire
FERNS, William Son M 10 1891
Bloxwich Staffordshire
FERNS, Edward Son M 7 1894
Bloxwich Staffordshire
FERNS, Lucy Daughter F 3 1898
Bloxwich Staffordshire
FERNS, Lewis Son M 1 1900
Bloxwich Staffordshire


Clara's name is quite unusual:
FreeBMD:
Births Dec 1885 (>99%)
Ferns Clara Novello Walsall 6b 663

Still looking. Sorry,it's late here. Just trying to put up as much info as possible so that others won't have to re-look.

Maureen

I may be geting closer:

1891 census transcription details for: 85, Hatherton Lane, Walsall Foreign, Bloxwich, Walsall
RG number: RG12 Piece: 2248 Folio: 45 Page: 32


Reg. District: Walsall Sub District: Bloxwich
Parish: Walsall Foreign Enum. District: 8
Ecclesiastical District: Bloxwich All Saints City/Municipal Borough: Walsall
Address: 85, Hatherton Lane, Walsall Foreign, Bloxwich, Walsall
County: Staffordshire
FEARN, George Head Married M 32 1859 Blast Furnace Labourer
Yorksal ???????Staffordshire
FEARN, Elizabeth Wife Married F 30 1861
Cape of Good Hope
FEARN, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 10 1881 Scholar
WalsallStaffordshire
FEARN, Harriet Daughter Single F 7 1884 Scholar
Bloxwich Staffordshire
FEARN, Clary Daughter Single F 5 1886 Scholar
Bloxwich
Staffordshire
FEARN, Eliza Daughter Single F 3 1888
Bloxwich Staffordshire
FEARN, George Son Single M 2 1889
Bloxwich Staffordshire
FEARN, John Son Single M 8 1883
Bloxwich Staffordshire

Just guessing!!!!!
FreeBMD:
Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%)
Fearn George Walsall 6b 774
Fowler Elizabeth Walsall 6b 774


Maureen

1871 census - household transcription
Person: FOWLER, Elizabeth
Address: Blakenall, Walsall Foreign, Walsall


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DEEGAN, James Head M 30 1841 Ireland VIEW
DEEGAN, Harriet Wife F 30 1841 Staffordshire VIEW
>>>>>>>>>FOWLER, Elizabeth Adopted F 11 1860 At Sea VIEW
DEEGAN, John Son M 7 1864 Staffordshire VIEW
DEEGAN, Emma Daughter F 5 1866 Staffordshire VIEW
DEEGAN, Mary Daughter F 2 1869 Ireland VIEW
DEEGAN, Patrick Father M 60 1811 Ireland VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Looks like she is Harriet's daughter from her first marriage

see below

1881

Name: James Deaken
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Harriet Deaken
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Walsall Foreign
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address: 9 Navigation St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Stirrup Filer

Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Walsall
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Deaken 43
Harriet Deaken 41
John Deaken 18
Emma Deaken 16
Mary Deaken 13
Thomas Deaken 10
Annie Deaken 7
James Deaken 5
Edward Deaken 1

I wonder???

1861

Name: Jane Elizebeth Fowler
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Granddaughter
Mother's name: Harriet Fowler
Gender: Female
Where born: Isle of France On The Ocean

Civil Parish: Stretton
Ecclesiastical parish: Stretton
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Penkridge
Sub-registration district: Brewood
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
Jane Dyke 63
Harriet Fowler 20
Jane Elizebeth Fowler 1
Arthur Farmer 4 MO


Marriages Dec 1863 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deigon James Walsall 6b 927
Fowler Harriet Walsall 6b 927


Harriet's 1st marriage

Marriages Jun 1858 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dyke Harriet Walsall 6b 667
Fowler Benjamin Walsall 6B 667

Yahoo,jax
I like the FMPast version:

1861 census transcription details for: Cottage, Stretton Village, Stretton

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09 Piece: 1981 Folio: 115 Page: 8


Reg. District: Penkridge Sub District: 2 Brewood
Parish: Stretton Enum. District: 19
Ecclesiastical District: Chapelry of the Elton in the Parish of Penkridge City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Cottage, Stretton Village, Stretton
County: Staffordshire
FYKE, Jane Head Widow F 63 1798 ...
Bradle Staffordshire
FOWLER, Harriett Daughter Widow F 20 1841 Soldiers Widow
Stretton Staffordshire
FOWBEK, Jane Elizabeth Granddaughter Unmarried F 1 1860
...
FARMER, Arthur Nursechild M 0 (6M) 1861
Wolverhampton Staffordshire

and ancestry hit again on the 1871


It is Deegan on the image, and Elizabeth


I have sent in change of name



1871 Census

Name: Harriet Dagan
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: James Dagan
Gender: Female
Where born: Stretton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Walsall
Ecclesiastical parish: Bloxwich
Town: Blakenall
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Bloxwich

James Dagan 30 b.ca 1841, Ireland, Stirrup Filer
Harriet Dagan 30
Elliott Fowler 11 b.ca 1860, At Sea, Adopted
John Dagan 7
Emma Dagan 5
Mary Dagan 2
Patrick Dagan 60 b.ca 1811, Ireland, Father



If Benjamin Fowler was a soldier, they might have been in India, and on their way back home from his serving out there, or after his death when Elizabeth was born on board ship.





sylvia

I wonder if this is him on findmypast??

I don't have a subscription to there


British Army Service Records 1760-1913

Search criteria used:
First name: Benjamin
Last name: Fowler
Year of birth: 1830 +/- 2 years
Served from: 1855 +/- 17 years

Results:
1 record found.

Cost:
You will be charged 5 credits to view a transcription and 30 to view the images unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


Last name First name(s) Year of birth Place of birth Transcript Original
Images


FOWLER Benjamin ? Cork VIEW






sylvia

Oh yes

she's DOVALL in the 1901 on ancestry

1901 Census

Name: Dovall M Ferns
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: George Ferns
Gender: Female
Where born: On Versell At Cope of Good Hope

Civil Parish: Walsall
Ecclesiastical parish: Blakenhall Heath Christchurch
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Bloxwich

George Ferns 42
Dovall M Ferns 40
John Ferns 18
Clara N Ferns 15
George Ferns 12
William Ferns 10
Edward Ferns 7
Lucy Ferns 3
Lewis Ferns 1



it looks more like Donall on the image





sylvia

1858-65 Births FOWLER Female VIEW

Find My Past Births at Sea, has entry above, Parents Benjamin and Harriett Fowler. Female born 20th March 1860. No name of ship given on image.

Chris :)

The Soldier Benjamin Fowler on FMP has 3 images, dated 1838, looks like a Discharge for being under age. No Family names given. Somebody might understand it better!.

Paul,
As you are tracing back, have you bought the relevant birth and marriage certificates so that you can track back with confidence that you have the correct families.
The child's birth certificate will have the Mother's maiden name on it, to help in identification, so you need to take your time, order the certificate, then do the next generation back.

Well, our Chris :).....

I do see the birth and it fits like a glove!

Must be me,but I don't see the FMPast images re:Ben the soldier

Maureen

British Army Service Records 1760-1913

Comes in that one Maureen has 3 images...

Chris :)

Wow!!!

I pop out for just a few hours and this is amazing - many thanks to all of you for giving so generously of your time.

I guess Patchem gives the sensible advice here - is this the way a newbie such as myself should follow through?

Obtain the relevant Birth and Marriage certs to ensure I'm on the right lines?

I guess I'm a sucker for coincidences and stories - and Elizabeth Ferns seems to have a hell of a story to tell!

Thanks again all,

Paul

Well,wow,Paul!

I know we're on the right path/ship.


Any certs you order should come from:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

you do have to register,but should be smooth sailing (just kill me now) after that.


Your direct ancestor's birth will be the first choice,of course. (never did get that info...)

I would love to see:
Marriages Jun 1858
Dyke Harriet Walsall 6b 667
Fowler Benjamin Walsall 6B 667

Marriages Dec 1863 (>99%)
Deigon James Walsall 6b 927
Fowler Harriet Walsall 6b 927

FreeBMD:
Marriages Mar 1880
Fearn George Walsall 6b 774
Fowler Elizabeth Walsall 6b 774

FreeBMD:
Births Dec 1885
Ferns Clara Novello Walsall 6b 663
(or choose your own person from 1911).

I'll send you an image of Elizabeth's birth notation at sea. Just pm me (click on my name and send an e-mail address).



If anyone else out there has done this already.....I love you.

Best,
Maureen