Genealogy Chat

Hi All,

Right, I used my free access to Criminal Records at Ancestry and found that lots of my relatives committed Larceny. The dictionary tells me that this is Theft. Most relatives were tried(?) and sentenced at Chelmsford.

My question is... How do I go about finding out further details of the crimes? And possibly where my relatives would have served their sentences?

Has anybody successfully traced a relative's crimes? And what kind of info is there out there? Where would be a good place for me to start?

I had thought about postings/articles in the local newspaper, but don't know which paper covered the area or the date the crimes were committed. I only know the date of trial.

Any recommendations?

Thanks, Karen

Hello Karen, take a look at 'Jonesey's' Newspaper Thread, I've just nudged it up...
Once you have joined, the Essex Standard is available.

Chris :)

Ta, Chris. I'll have a gander.

Karen

Was this before or after 1841 and if after 1841 was the sentence served between or during a census?

If you can catch them 'jailed' in a census it can be a godsend in finding records :-)

I have one particularly naughty Essex ancestor (my 3xGGrandfather) who was sentenced, at Chelmsford, to 7 tears transportation in 1839 but in the 1841 census was still in England on a prison hulk ship.

The hulk ship records are at the NA and I was lucky enough to be able to visit and see the quarterly returns for the ship and my ancestor' s final release having never been transported. (This was before the inclusion of hulk ship records on Ancestry)....From the returns I found he had previously been sentenced for smuggling!!!

If you find newspaper reports as suggested by Chris Ho it may help in finding out where they 'spent time' and then a good 'google' or contact with the local RO may point you in the right direction for surviving records.

Good luck
Chris

Thanks, Chris. Good tips. One or two were indeed transported. For now I'm looking into my direct ancestors, one of whom was sentenced to 6 months imprisonment for larceny.

Thanks, Karen

Hi Karen,

I have found newspapers articles on my relatives who was sentenced in 1844. The site Jonesey recommends is great.
I also went to the records office and found 3 more entries from the Gaol register. I think you can only see this 'face to face'. They are all original books that were filled in by the Gaol (jail) on their arrival.
I have copies of all of them and they do give quite a bit of info on the individual.
My relative did 12 months hard labour for larceby too. He had 4 young children to raise by himeslf as his wife had died. Maybe thats why didn't get transported.
You can also view newspapers at the records office by a viewer and they will print copies of that too.
It's definately worth a trip, but remember to take photographic ID with you.

good luck
Cheryl

Thanks, Cheryl. A trip to the ERO isn't possible right now, but I've signed up to the site recommended by Jonesey's thread.

How did you go about finding out which jail your relative served his time in? Was it mentioned in the newspaper articles or was it a matter of searching? Or perhaps the jail they're sent to corresponds to the court they are sentenced in or where they lived?

Hi, sorry for not replying sooner, I've been to work.

I found one entry on the criminal registry on Ancestry and as his crime was 1844 and the registers only started that year I decided to look through them all up to 1875 when we think he died. They are numbered 1, 2, 3 etc and they all had a name index in the front telling you which page.
If you do go to the ERO then remember to check for name variations too as our man used an alias and 2 out of the 4 gaol sentences were in one spelling and 2 the other. We knew from the info though that it was the same man
If you send me a PM with your email address I will send you one of mine so you can see the type of info on the page.
Cheryl

have you tryed the old baily site

starts from 1674- and gos up to 1913
this site if any of your are on there will give you the records
of the crime and more info than what iv seen on ancestry


www.oldbaileyonline.org

Thanks to you both. I'll try the site and send a pm.

There is a prison in Chelmsford, dont know how long it has been there though
edit - 1830

jax

If you use the site recommended by jonesey and look at the 19th century newspapers, all you have to do is enter the person's full name as in "John Smith" and all newspapers with that combination of name will be shown and the name will be highlighted. There is also a filter which will eliminate certain categories e.g. News-advertisements-business etc. -jle

Thanks Jax and Janet.

Waiting for my online pin to arrive for the site recommended by jonesey.

Tried the Old Bailey site. Didn't help with my Essex ancestors, but I did find a few other relatives mentioned.

Ok, well the newspapers didn't help. I only managed to dig up a new crime committed, a marriage notice and a relative fracturing their ankle!

So it looks like my only option left is to contact the ERO directly.

Any one know what the phrase 'Held in Adjournment' means? Does it mean postponed or previously postponed, maybe?

Not sure what it means, but it sounds like he has held in custody while the court adjourned, possibly until another day. Maybe there was too much evidence, witnesses etc
When you look at the old newspapers they did tend to do into a lot of detail. If the courts did the same you'd be there all day lol

Right, well I hadn't factored in mis-spelling of the names. It took all day but I finally found a newspaper article that told me that my ggg Grandfather and his brother-in-law both were charged with Larceny for stealing a sack of peas! They were sentenced to 6 months hard labour.

Thank you all for your help. What a result!

Well done. I love reading the old newspapers, even the bits about other people. They go into such detail.

6 months for a sack of peas. At least in those days they meant business. You wouldn't get that for running someone over these days

When searching anything from back then you have to use different variation of the name. Many people couldn't read or write so things were written how they sounded

Then again they gave silly sentances to what we would now call peadophiles....Theres one on another thread that got a year for that

jax

Well said Cheryl and Jax!

6 months is harsh for wanting to feed your family.

My husbands relative got 12 months for trying to care for his family too.
Long story but basically his wife died in childbirth and left him to raise 4 children under 9. He had three 1 months sentences for deserting the children and leaving the parish to feed them. In desperation he stole a gold ring and some tea from a lady. He then got sent to Gaol for 12 months hard labour. The children were sent to thw workhouse, aged 9, 7,, 5and 4.
It's so sad.
He was only trying to get some money to feed them.