Genealogy Chat

Hi thanks for all the help on the previous requests

The next grandparent to tackle is Alice Ann Hartley

Her Parents seem to be Thomas and Alice

The 1881 Census is here
Thomas HARTLEY Head M Male 36 Colne, Lancashire, England Cotton Warp Sizer
Alice HARTLEY Wife M Female 38 Barrowford, Lancashire, England Housewife
Barrett A. HARTLEY Son Male 7 Helmshore, Lancashire, England Scholar
Alice A. HARTLEY Daur Female 6 Haggate, Lancashire, England Scholar
Maggie E. HARTLEY Daur Female 5 Haggate, Lancashire, England
Fannie I. HARTLEY Daur Female 4 Haggate, Lancashire, England
Thomas W. HARTLEY Son Male 2 Haggate, Lancashire, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 33 Brennand St
Census Place Burnley, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341993
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4148 / 171
Page Number 31

The most likely marriage seems to be Thomas Hartley and Alice Atkinson in 1872 Burnley

so interested to trace

HARTLEY, Thomas c 1845 Colne, Lancs

and

ATKINSON, Alice c 1843 Barrowford, Lancs

in the previous censuses

Thanks in advance for your help.

Hi Wade,
This is a possible on 1871 Census:
6 Barley Green:
Elijah Father (64) Farmer 6 3/4 acres
Elizabeth Farmers wife (64)
Thomas (26) Cotton Weaver

Another possible:
1871 living Mount Arrantt,Haslingden
Wilkinson (53) Cotton Weaver
Sarah (48)
Thomas (26)
John (24)
Nathan (23) Above all born Colne
Ann (15)
Edward (13) Both born Rawtenstall
Robert (10)
Sarah (6) Both born Crowshowbooth (?)

If you get the birth certificate of one of the children (Alice Ann Hartley as she is your Grandmother) it will give you the full parents' names, and so you will not end up possibly chasing the wrong Mother.
Similarly, if you then get the marriage certificate it will have the Fathers' names, and so will help to ensure the correct family. Otherwise we are just guessing, possibly wildly.

(There are about 20 Thomas Hartleys born in the Colne area between 1844 and 1847, and about 6 Ann's)

Alice Atkinson
Age 28
Estimated Year of Birth 1843
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation
Address Newtown Nelson Clayton Street
District Burnley, Colne
Parish Marsden
Administrative County Lancashire
Birth Place Lancashire
Birth County Lancashire

Robert 61 cotton warp twister
Ann 55
Barrett 19 ?unusual name
Sophia 17
Agnes 14

All born Barrowford

Alice Atkinson
Age 18
Estimated Year of Birth 1843
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Cotton Weaver
Address Top Of Hill
District Burnley, Colne
Parish Barrowford
Administrative County Lancashire
Birth Place Barrowford
Birth County Lancashire

Robert 51
Ann 45
James 22
Robert 16
Mary 15
Stephen 13
Barrett 9
Sophia 7
Agnes 4

All born Barrowford, most of them are cotton weavers

Alice Atkinson
Age 8
Estimated Year of Birth 1843
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Scholar
Address Baldwins Buildings
District Burnley, Colne
Parish Barrowford Booth
Administrative County Lancashire
Birth Place Barrowford
Birth County Lancashire

+ same parents/siblings as on 1861 census

Births Jun 1873 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HARTLEY Barrett Atkinson Haslingden 8e 166

This might be the safest birth cert. to get as there quite a few possibles for Alice Ann.

1891 Alice is a widow:

Alice Hartley
Age 48
Estimated Year of Birth 1843
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation
Address 49, Howsin Street
District Burnley, Burnley
Parish Burnley
Administrative County Lancashire
Birth Place Barrowford
Birth County Lancashire

Barrett A 17 Haslingdon
Alice A 16 Nelson
Maggie E 15 Birchcliffe
Fanny S 14 Birchcliffe
Thomas W 12 Burnley
Wilfred 10 Burnley

Thanks

Clearly we can be pretty confident that we have got the right mother as she has obviously named her son after her brother Barrett.

Thomas Hartley may be more difficult to pin down

Dothe earlier censuses tell us anything more about Robert Atkinson and wife Ann. I think this should be his birth

Baptisms: 15 Oct 1809 St Bartholomew, Colne, Lancashire, England
Robert Atkinson - Son of John Atkinson & Ann
Born: 6 Sep 1809
Abode: Barrowford
Occupation: Weaver
Register: Baptisms 1790 - 1812, Page 267, Entry 71
Source: LDS Film 1471024

Patchem is right, there are too many around - you would need the marriage certificate for fathers name to get the right Thomas Hartley.

Nothing, other than he was a weaver and both from Barrowford,

this may be them 1841:

Robert Atkinson
Age 30
Estimated Year of Birth 1811
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation
Address Barrowford
District Burnley Union, Colne
Parish Whalley
Administrative County Lancashire
Birth Place Lancashire
Birth County Lancashire

Ann 25
James 2
William 1

Burial: 6 Apr 1842 St Thomas, Barrowford, Lancashire, England
William Atkinson -
Age: 1
Abode: Barrowford
Buried by: David Carson Curate of Colne
Register: Burials 1839 - 1861, Page 11, Entry 81
Source: LDS Film 1471022

1881:

ATKINSON, Robert Head Married M 71 1810 Cotton Warp Twister
Barrowford
Lancashire VIEW
ATKINSON, Ann Wife Married F 64 1817 Cotton Warp Twisters Wife
Barrowford
Lancashire VIEW
NEWSOME, Ellen A Daughter Married F 21 1860 Cotton Weaver
Barrowford
Lancashire VIEW
NEWSOME, Isaiah Son In Law Married M 20 1861 Cotton Mill Warehouseman
Nelson
Lancashire VIEW
RUSHTON, Hagar Grand Daughter Single F 3 1878
Barrowford
Lancashire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
4160 Folio:
32 Page:
6

Registration District:
Burnley Sub District:
Colne Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Great and Little Marsden Municipal Borough:
Address:
50, Clayton St, Great And Little Marsden County:
Lancashire

Possibly? Can't find either on 1891 census

Burial: 24 Dec 1885 St Thomas, Barrowford, Lancashire, England
Robert Atkinson -
Age: 75 yrs
Abode: Nelson
Buried by: A F S Studdy Vicar
Register: Burials 1875 - 1889, Page 75, Entry 593
Source: LDS Film 1471022

Burial: 6 Jul 1886 St Thomas, Barrowford, Lancashire, England
Ann Atkinson -
Age: 70 yrs
Abode: Nelson
Buried by: A F S Studdy Vicar
Register: Burials 1875 - 1889, Page 79, Entry 625
Source: LDS Film 1471022

Can't see a marriage for Robert & Ann in the area, you may need one of the children's birth certificates to get her maiden name.

Thanks Flip and others. Yes I'm sure that info on Robert and Ann Atkinson is correct. Someone on GR has Wilkinson Hartley and son Thomas 1845 in her tree so that may throw some light on the Hartley side. For what its worth my gut instinct is that neither Wilkinson nor Elijah is Thomas's(1845) father not least because neither their nor their wives names Sarah and Elizabeth ever crop up in the subsequent family children's names. My inclination would be that Thomas's mother will prove to be a Margaret or Frances.

Ultimately my friend may need to get the birth certs to be absolutely sure, but often sufficient clues emerge to get the right answer before then.

This is the tips board, and the Tip is to get all the certificates and systematically work back, no guessing, no gut instincts, facts first, then flights of fancy.
Sorry, but money and hard work and patience needed.

Patchem

You are absolutely right.

But in this case I am just trying to help out an older gentleman who is new to both genealogy and the internet/computers to get as far as possible with an initial tree during the few days I will be staying here. Clearly if he decides to take up the hobby seriously, he will need to decide whether he wishes to spend the time and money to verify the facts that the team on this board have been so wonderfully helpful in providing.

What the last few days have taught me however is that if you have some friends and skilled helpers such as the people on this board and you have a relatively "easy" tree it is possible to make a quite remarkable start in just a few days.

Hi Wade,
I agree with patchem, this is rather like looking for a needle in a haystack, there is too much uncertainty. I looked back to 1841 for an obvious line to follow first and could not find one.