Genealogy Chat

Hi Guys, Phew! your amazing. thank you I have just read all your replys. (I sat with this on all night nearly and didnt see any replys come through so was so suprised when I switched on just now,) The Harriet matilda is my grandmother .and the matilda Im after is the one who in 1891 lives at manchester rd. That information about the marriages was interesting, if they are the same couple they must have been very young. i have had a couple of wrong certs for this matilda and the other matildas on the BMD sites dont seem to come from the right areas so I thought I had the correct one with Croydon. Do you think it is the wrong one then.? She does seem to appear as from wandsworth and merton on some. She was a servant I do believe from family lore. Thank you soo much for your replies. That was amazing what you did with the witness's. You really used all the information. The james miller jobs thing. I had a look at nelsons field and there does appear to be copper mills and printers so it could be feasible that he may change jobs. Regards Rachel

This one has me stumped. 4 sisters and I can't find a likely birth or decent early census for any of them.

Just a feeling,but I don't think the birth cert is the correct one. Sorry.

Have you had a trawl through Search Trees to see if anyone is researching any of the other suspected siblings??

Good luck!

Maureen

I agrre with Maureen, I don't think the birth cert you have is the correct one. I still think you should be looking for one with father a Printer.

Jennifer

baffled by this famiy!
eg where is Beatrice Stanley age 11 in 1911 in 1901?

where is Dorothy Stanley born c1897 in 1911?

where is Mr Munro?

this could be Rosina Miller in 1911 born Wandsworth, and Matilda who filled in the census herself in 1911 also says she born Wandsworth

ALDER, Mary Head Married F 65 1846 Somerset Frome VIEW
ALDER, Stanley Montague Son Single M 25 1886 Railway Signalman Dorset Sherborne VIEW
ALDER, Albert Henry Son Single M 24 1887 Stoker Gasworks Dorset Sherborne VIEW
>>MILLER, Rosina Lodger Single F 42 1869 Ironer Laundry Londn Wandsworth VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
4485 Reference:
RG14PN4485 RG78PN185 RD63 SD2 ED3 SN64

Registration District:
Thanet Sub District:
Margate Enumeration District:
3 Parish:
Westgate on Sea

Address:
4 Ques Terrace Waterworks Road Westgate - on - Sea

Hi, Do you think it would be worth me getting the birth certificate for Rosina?. It is an unusual name and it does look like she is related to Sarah Eves. I have trawled through all the BMD for 1855 to 1865 for all the Matildas again and the only place that is Merton is The Croydon one I already have with the copper lab on. The only other miller family I can find is the other certificate I have with marlybone and he is a navel guy definatley not a printer!. ( but the really odd thing is that they all havevirtually the same family names that Harriet , matildas daughter gives her children.) Thank you again it has given me a couple of new tracks to go down and has made me realise that there is so much more to be gleaned from these certificates. thank you rachx

Can someone check for Beatrice Stanley age 1 born Poplar

She is on 1901censusonline in Poplar but I cant see who she is with

quinsgran..

Beatrice is with the rest of the family in 1901....shes there on the image, but has been missed off the transcription on Ancestry..


Nicky

Oh Nicky, I'm pleased about that, makes you remember always to look at the image

Jennifer

Presuming this is Marys birth reg??

Births Mar 1908 (>99%)
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Munro Mary Greenwich 1d 1102

The cert will give fathers name, which may make it easier to trace a marriage for Matilda and Mr. Munro {if indeed there was one?}...

If you then got the marriage cert. you could see what Matilda put for her fathers name....

Just a thought ..in 1911 they are in Greenwich, could Mr. Munro be at sea, or on board ship...??


Nicky

Rachel what I would do is, yes try for Rosina's birth cert. But I would contact the local Reg office;

http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/info/323/birth-historical_searches/220/records_and_certificates

this is a very good site with info about how to get the certificate.

It says: Whether you call in person or write to us, if the record cannot be traced from the information supplied or it is not held in the Wandsworth Register Office, we will explain the position to you and give you any necessary guidance.

I would contact them, explain your dilemma and ask if they could check Rosina Miller's birth to see if the father was James Miller/Printer.

The GRO Index ref is no use to them but you could say that the birth was reg between April, May June of 1869 in Wandsworth district.

I have done this many times and in the main found that the reg Office staff are very helpful.

Good Luck, Jennifer

hi Jennifer, thank you for that info I will. I sat and had a good look through the census last night and the only Rosina I could find in 1871 (found a birth for Rosina Miller Wandsworth in 1869 june which was the most likely, there wasnt a lot to choose from) which agrees with the date on the info earlier when she is staying with the Eves is a rosina whos father is down as George and they are living in Battersea 27 landseer street same address in 1881 but he is a carpenter. and another whos is living in portsea but born in dorset.. I also looked through all the james millers on the 1871 census's for london and found two printers but no children with any of the names we want. One of them was scottish, b 1828 and the other b 1829 essex both are living in St Giles. Its a mystery maybe Matilda is illigitimate . I will let you know how I get on with Wandsworth reg office . thank you again.x

Rachel do let us all know, we do get involved with the families we look at. I suspect that maybe the girls were illigitimate but it seems odd that they should name their father as James Miller and pick the occupation of Printer.

I did wonder if the oldest 2 Sarah and Harriet were born to a different father and then their mother took up with James Miller and had Matilda and Rosina.
Good luck , Jennifer

1901 -


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STANLEY, Richard Head Married M 48 1853 Labourer Ship Yard
Poplar
Middlesex VIEW
STANLEY, Matilda Wife Married F 47 1854
Merton
Surrey VIEW
STANLEY, Harriett Daughter F 16 1885 Cook Shop Ass
Battersea
Surrey VIEW
STANLEY, Herbert Son M 10 1891
Poplar
London VIEW
STANLEY, Ethel Daughter F 8 1893
Poplar
London VIEW
STANLEY, Charles Son M 6 1895
Poplar
London VIEW
STANLEY, Dorothy Daughter F 4 1897
Poplar
London VIEW
STANLEY, Beatrice Daughter F 1 1900
Poplar
London VIEW

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RG number:
RG13 Piece:
357 Folio:
148 Page:
24

Registration District:
Poplar Sub District:
Poplar Enumeration District:
32 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St John

Civil Parish:
Poplar Municipal Borough:
Address:
8, Charles Terrace, Poplar County:
London

This is sister Harriett with husband John in 1911...her place of birth changed from 1901 from Whitchapel to Mitcham...


HALL, John C Head Married M 58 1853 Machinery Oil Hand London Wandsworth VIEW
HALL, Harriett Wife Married
39 years F 58 1853 London Mitcham VIEW
HALL, James Boarder M 7 1904 VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2213 Reference:
RG14PN2213 RG78PN75 RD26 SD2 ED25 SN56

Registration District:
Wandsworth Sub District:
North West Battersea Enumeration District:
25 Parish:
Battersea

Address:
59 Darien Road Battersea County:
Londo



Nicky

Hello Nicky,Thank you. But how do you know that is her sister?.Where should I look to find that?
I am beginning to think there is something v odd here. I cannot find these girls.

I have contacted Wandsworth register office and they say that they have no record of any of the girls, No matilda, Sarah Ann or Rosina, (the Rosina they had was the one with George for a father) so I shall contact the main one next week and see what comes up. What a puzzle
I will keep you posted.
thanx Rach.

What about this?

James David Miller the groom is a printer..

James David Miller
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Spouse Name: Jane Harrigan
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 09 Jun 1853
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: James David Miller
Spouse Father Name: Patrick Harrigan


Nicky

Ooo Nicky that looks exciting. I can add that to my info to see if that helps track the' girls'. The marriage date could be about right the est birth date would be bout 1832 so he could be old enough to be the father for all three of our suspected siblings.

Also going back to the original link I had with the lab in copper mill and then he is a printer I have found some sort of link to the two with the 1841 census .A family of 'millers living at Merton. james C1786 is a coppersmith, and his son james circa 1827 is only 14 but living with them is a john miller circa 1819 printer and a harriet circa 1816 (wife). So there is a bit of a link with the copper mill and a printer. It could be the same James David as the James in 1841 has a brother David so it is a family name. Following this family to 1851 has the father James b1786 still in merton as a lab in the copper mill and his other son still at home abraham is a lab in a print factory. thanx rach

Rachel ..when i put up the 1911 census entry and said it was sister Harriet, I meant the lady we believe to be sister of Matilda from the marriage entries put up by the others on the first 2 pages of this thread.

Harriet Miller married John charles Hall, with her father father listed as James miller a Printer.

As you say we have no proof of this, apart from the census entrie where one sister is staying with another and is down as sister in law to the other sisters husband....we know those 2 are related, but still havn`t actually tied them to Matilda...

I spent quite a lot of time yesterday trying to find these girls together in earlier census`s but had no luck.


EDIT...Just looked back at the previous info on thread...so we`ve confirmed that Harriet ,Sarah Ann and Rosina are all sisters from their 1891 and 1901 census entries where they are staying with each other...what we havn`t done is tie Matilda to them...apart from the fact she listed a James Miller Printer as her father on her marriage cert also.

Nicky.

Nicky-
You're getting as looped around as I am.

But:
Name: Matilda Miller
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Spouse Name: Richard Stanley
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 02 Jun 1884
Parish: St Andrew, West Kensington
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
Father Name: James Miller occ:(need I mention it??)
Spouse Father Name: Richard Stanley

Witnesses are Sarah Ann and Charles Eves.

And it just snowballs back and forth from there.


Maureen

Yep Maureen your right...definetly losing it.....

didn`t realise Sarah and hubby were the witnesses...

So we have definetly confirmed they are all sisters....

But what name they are under prior to their marriages is anyones guess??


Nicky