Genealogy Chat

ok thanks julie have just signed up for trial on ancestry lol will try donovan , yes sorry meant james crump

You mean Florence in 1881?
She is on the next page of images. I understand you can't access the next page on GR so I've hopefully found someone else on that page that you can search on. Try Hubert Broad 1872 Hereford. Florence appears at the top of the page that he is on.

When looking for her father try variants including the more common Donovan.

When you say you are looking for James Cooper do you mean James Crump?

Julie

ps i have been trying to find second marrage child florence 1871 hereford she shows as being on the census but when i get the copy up shes not on there ? wonted to see if i could find her father ? .james cooper eliza senior brother is proviing difficlut to track on census to.

Hi julie ,

thats great work thanks so much address are on here birth cert in 1858nov there resisdence was lower folley tupsley hereford thomas must have died between 1858 & 1876 as he is deceased on the eliza junior &thomas richards marrage cert have fiound a poss death for thomas pulling will get the cert for that too . address on marrage cet is 14 gwynne street hereford in 1876 i will have a look on google map know i have swome more information i wil try and get to the county offices

This looks like them in 1861:

1861 England Census
Name: Eliza Pooling
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas Pooling
Gender: Female
Where born: Dilurn, Herefordshire, England

Civil Parish: Tupsley
Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Fownhope
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 145
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Pooling 45 >>Waggoner
Eliza Pooling 28 >> Laundress
Eliza Pooling 2
William Pooling 5 MO
Margaret Sarah 15 >>Cousin

On the image there is no house name next to their entry but the family above them live at Mouse Castle so maybe it was shared occupancy. Do you know it?

I remember some years ago visiting my parents in law who live in Hereford & we walked down Eign Hill to the Salmon Inn. We passed the house sign for Mouse Castle and I thought it was such an excellent name I insisted on a family photo next to it. I think it's quite a big house so maybe the Pullings were in service there?

Julie

Hi Karen. Great stuff.
What was the specific address on the birth certificate? Mouse Castle by any chance?

This looks like Eliza's Christening (from familysearchbeta.org)

Eliza Pulling

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
residence: Hereford, England
parents: Thomas Pulling, Eliza

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Eliza Pulling
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 18 Nov 1858
baptism/christening place: HAMPTON BISHOP,HEREFORD,ENGLAND
father's name: Thomas Pulling
mother's name: Eliza
indexing project (batch) number: C13889-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: unknown

Julie

Hi All ,

Certificates have arrived
Eliza (junior) pulling born 9/11/1858 in tupsley hereford mother eliza pulling formely crump and father thomas pulling
marrage cert for eliza says elizabeth pulling & thomas richards age 27 of tuplsey hereford eliza lived in 14 gwynne st , father is thmas pulling is noe deceased farm lab

certs should be here this morning hereford records have found marrage & possible birth for eliza junior .
have also contacted shrewsbury records there are trying to located eliza senior will keep you posted .

Yes remarried and gave birth to Florence in the same quarter it seems!

Births Jun 1871 (>99%)
Denovan Florence Hereford 6a 503

Here's 1891:

Name: Eliza Donovan
Age: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Tillington, Herefordshire, England

Civil Parish: St Martin
Ecclesiastical parish: St Martin
Town: Hereford
County/Island: Herefordshire

Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Hereford City
ED, institution, or vessel: 14

Eliza Donovan 53
William Pulling 27
Charles Pulling 24
Ada Donovan 18

Address 165 Belmont Road

Still married but still no husband with her.

it would be useful to get the marriage cert for Thomas Richards and Eliza Pulling to see who her father is named as. I still can't find a likely birth for her.

Julie

i am hoping to go too the county archives this week so will see what info they haveand order some certs

thats great news julie ,

so senior eliza remarried ?

Just to clarify:

1861 Gwynne Street Mary Crump & son James

1871 12 Gwynne Street Mary Crump, Daughter Eliza
Pulling & her children incl Eliza who later
marries Thomas Richards.

1881 10 Gwynne Street Thomas & Eliza Richards &
children.

11 Gwynne Street Eliza 'Dunevan' (possibly
previously known as Pulling) & children

Julie

Look who's living next door to Thomas & Eliza Richards in 1881:

Name: Elizabeth Dunevan
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Weobley, Hereford, England

Civil Parish: Hereford St John Baptist
County/Island: Herefordshire

Street address: 11 Gwynne St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Laundress

Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Hereford City
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Elizabeth Dunevan 44
William Dunevan 19
Charles Dunevan 18
Katy Dunevan 16
Florence Dunevan 10
Ada Dunevan 6

EDIT
Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%)
Denovan James Hereford 6a 899 <<<<<<
Hall John Philips Hereford 6a 899
Lewis Annie Lucy Hereford 6a 899
PULLING Eliza Hereford 6a 899<<<<<<<

Julie

ok thanks julie i am still looking hopefully something will turn up thanks fort your help

karen

I can't find this Crump family in 1851!
Anyone else tried and not found them?
I'm wondering if they were going by another name?
Found a potential family with a different surname but won't post that yet in case it's a red herring. Still can't find a likely marriage for Eliza senior to a Pulling.

Julie

thanks jooleh its the next generations on my tree sorry to start another thread i didnt think to put the same on here
al your help much appreciated

Mary Crump without her daughter Eliza in 1861

1861 England Census
Name: Mary Crump
Age: 62
Estimated birth year: abt 1799
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Diddlebury, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: St John The Baptist
Ecclesiastical parish: Hereford
County/Island: Herefordshire
:
Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Hereford City
ED, institution, or vessel: 9l
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 155
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Crump 62
James Crump 13

Haven't found them yet in 1851

So there is still a mystery surrounding the birth registrations of Thomas and Eliza's children. I have looked long & hard for them!

Filling in a few more gaps:


1871 England Census
Name: Thomas Richards
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's name: Phillip Richards
Mother's name: Sarah Richards
Gender: Male
Where born: Lugwardine, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Tupsley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Tupsley
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Fownhope
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 152
Household Members:
Name Age
Phillip Richards 50
Sarah Richards 43
Thomas Richards 21 .>>>>ag lab
Enoch Richards 16
John Richards 15

and if the marriage is correct here is Eliza:


1871 England Census
Name: Eliza Pulling
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Granddaughter
Mother's name: Eliza Pulling
Gender: Female
Where born: Tupsley, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Hereford City
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 116
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Crump 72 Widow born Diddlebury Shropshire Laundress
Eliza Pulling 37 Ditto above
Eliza Pulling 12
William Pulling 10
Charles Pulling 8
Kate Pulling 4
Annie Pulling 3

Just trying to keep it all on one thread as you started another one looking for Eliza's mother :)

Can't immediately find a marriage for Eliza Pulling senior.

Julie

so they called here nelly then thanks ladies for you help x

Nelly's brother also married a Cooper. In 1901, his b-i-l James Cooper is with them. Think this could be Nelly's future husband?

1901 England Census
about Walter Richards
Name: Walter Richards
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Emily Richards
Gender: Male
Where born: Herefordshire, England

Civil parish: All Saints
Ecclesiastical parish: Hereford All Saints
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Hereford City
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 76
Household Members: Name Age
Walter Richards 26
Emily Richards 24
Annie Richards 3
Nellie Richards 2
Eliza Cooper 40
James Cooper 19

Rose