Genealogy Chat

Connection to Witnesses on marriage certificate.

1841 Alice you think is with Henry 60 betty 45 also Peter 1821.
By the way on the neat census page to this is Joseph Duckworth age 20 and Robert age 35.Robert married Ellen beesley 1842.

1861 Peter could also be in Haydock where Alice and Joseph Duckworth went.
He is in District 7.>27
Peter Cook widow age 42 born Ashton Lancs coal miner

Next door but one is Joseph Bradbury born 1812 St Helens Lancs!!!!!!!!!!

Maryb

Scrap that,i think there were 2 peter Cook's.
The one on 1841 census seems to have married Charlotte,1st child HENRY 1842.
On 1851 census at Church Street
1861 Church Lane
1871 Gustavos same as 1841
1881 D3 > 43 Gustavos Peter was a Blacksmith.

as it is not an unusual name I would guess that they are 2 different Ellen Cooks tho I can only find 1 Ellen in Winick

Baptism: 3 Jan 1794 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England
Ellen Cook - daughter of Thomas Cook
Born: 4 Dec 1793
Abode: Croft
Register: Baptisms 1777 - 1806, Page 56, Entry 2
Source: LDS Film 1655876

Baptisms: No date given Sep 1795 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England
Ellen Cooke - Daughter of John Cooke
Born: 12 Aug 1795
Register: Baptisms 1765-1809, Page 88, Entry 30
Source: FHL British Film 1885657

Hello Lancashireann,
many thanks for looking for me, I found the ellen cook 1st child of Ellen Cook but what I find confusing is that there is a second child, Peter, who is listed as illegitimate but Henry and Ellen were married in 1811, so why would the children be classed as illegitimate?
I have not tried a will yet for Henry but will do so.;
I know what you mean about Henry and ellen being Winwick as most things seem to revolve around that township, the Henry and Betty Heaton marriage was around Pemberton, but I don't know how close that is..... thanks for everything, I will keep digging... M.

have you tried looking for wills for Henry Cook which may help

as everything else seems to be centred on Winick I would think the Henry & Ellen marriage is more likely

Marriage: 15 Aug 1810 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Henry Cooke - of Pemberton
Betty Heaton - (X), of Pemberton
Witness: Wm. Bancks; Wm. Turton
Married by Banns by: Thomas Pigot Curate
Notes: {Groom signed 'Henry Cook']
Register: Marriages 1803 - 1812, Page 297, Entry 2039
Source: LDS Film 1885690

Marriage: 27 Jan 1811 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England
Henry Cook - (X), of this Parish
Ellen Whittle - of this Parish
Witness: Thos. Bradshaw; Thos. Walker
Banns Read: 28 Oct 1810, 2nd: 4 Nov 1810, 3rd: 11 Nov 1810
Married by Banns by: Gs. Chippindall Curate
Register: Marriages 1766 - 1812, Page 865, Entry 11
Source: LDS Film 1885708

don't know if this helps or confuses but found these for the Ashton Alice with mother Ellen

Baptisms: 3 Sep 1815 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England
Alice Cooke - 1st Illegitimate Child and Daughter of Ellen Cooke
Born: 9 Aug 1815
Abode: Ashton
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Edmund Sibson, Curate of Ashton
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1827, Page 47, Entry 373
Source: LDS Film 1885658

Baptisms: 26 Jul 1818 St Thomas, Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England
Peter Cooke - 2nd Illegitimate Child and 1st Son of Ellen Cooke, Spinster
Born: 7 Jul 1818
Abode: Ashton
Baptised by: Edmund Sibson Curate of Ashton
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1827, Page 99, Entry 791
Source: LDS Film 1885658

Hello,
sorry to trouble you all again, but Von has said to order a film from LDS and view at a local centre. When I checked on the LDS site there is no centre listed for where we live, although I know there is a new Church here, could it be that because it is new then it is not on the website... the nearest that is listed is about 70miles away. advice would be much appreciated. many thanks. M.

Hi all, I am back again, cos this is getting more and more frustrating and I don't know where to turn.!!!!
So far I have the following:
Henry Cook married Betty Heaton 15.8.1810 Daughter Alice Born c1815
Henry Cook married Ellen Whittle 27.1.1811 Daughter Alice born 1817/20
To add an extra dimension both Von and I found an Alice Cook born Ashton in Makerfield c1815 illegitimate child of Ellen Cook .
MM found my Alice (now Duckworth) on the 1851 census at Ashton in Makerfield with a widow by the name of Betty Cook living next door !! could that mean that is the one???
Now I have looked at Lancshire parish records on line and cannot get any break through so please please can anyone suggest anything or better still find anything which will link one of these to my Alice Duckworth, formerly cook. I would be so grateful for any help you can give me. Thanks. M

Hi
On the IGI
There are 3 siblings for Alice Cooke.
John,Ann and Richard. They all have the same batch no.C005567 . On both John's and Richard's it states that mother's maiden name is Heaton
They are extracted records so should be accurate.

There is another extracted record for a baptism of an Alice Cooke in September 1815 in Winwick Ashton-In-Mackerfield
but only the mother's name is given as Ellen Cooke. No father.
The other records for Alice Cooke about that time appear to be submitted so should be taken with a pinch of salt but your best bet is still to search parish records.
Sorry I just noticed you'd already found this one.
Von

sorry, did not answer your first question, yes the IGI I found was for a birth on 29 Dec in wigan 1815. Father Henry cook and mother Elizabeth.

Hi Von,
thanks for your reply, I must admit that I am not very good with IGI records, I seem to only get basic information and don't really understand the source information like batch No's source call No. etc., as all I seem to have got when looking at them is a repeat of what I have already found !.
I have looked at Lancashire on Line parish clerk Project and have found a marriage for Henry Cooke (named himself as Cook on register) and Betty Heaton, August 1810, and a marriage for Henry cook and Ellen Whittle January 1811. I will certainly try to find out more from the LDS site and hopefully will be able to sort this one out..... again many thanks.

Hi
Is the record you found on the IGI for a birth on the 29 th Dec in Wigan?
If so there are 3 other Cooke births that come up with that batch number.
On one of them father is given as Henry Cooke and mother Elizabeth Heaton.

If you look at the original parish records father's occupation and abode is usually given for baptisms after 1813 so you should be able to sort out the two Alice Cookes.
If you can't get to a record office you can order the film from the LDS and view it at your nearest LDS centre
Good luck
Von

Hello all,
I'm back again..... I received the marriage cert today of Joseph Duckworth and Alice Cook, I was hoping that the witnesses names might give a clue as to which Alice Cook was which, but no such luck, the witnesses are Thomas Warburton and Robert Bradbury.
There is an interesting potential link as Joseph and Alice's daughter Elizabeth Duckworth was daughter in law to Margaret Callon who was formerly a Bradbury, however that is not much help with regard to my search to ensure that I get the right Alice and her family..... If anyone has any ideas which might help I would much appreciate it. M.

Hi all
Just to let you know I have ordered the marriage cert of Joseph Duckworth and Alice Cook in the hope that the witnesses may give me a clue. I did find an Alice Cook on the Parish records of Ashton in Makerfield, she was the illegitimate daughter Ellen Cook born 1815, but not sure if that helps as on the 1841 census on these postings there is an older child to Ellen and Henry cook, any ways will wait and see what the marriage cert throws up if anything, in the meantime if anyone has any ideas I would really appreciate some additional help!!! many thanks M.

Hi MM,
Yes, at least I thought it was, but as you can see from the other postings there appears to be two Alice Cooks both from Winwick, with both fathers named Henry...... one has a mother Elizabeth (betty) and the other a mother named as Ellen.
On the 1841 census I have found a Henry cook, living at Gustavius Hillock Winwick, with wife Betty, daughter Alice born c1816 and another daughter Betty c 1826, that would tie in with the 1851 census where they were living next door..... but how on earth do I determine which Alice is ours, is there a way to do it? thanks all so much for taking the time to help with this one, I really appreciate it....M

I don't know, it is confusing!
Is your Alice the one on the 1851 census Alice Duckworth, 36, wife of Joseph, 36, with children John, 5, Ann, 4 and Alice 11 months? They're on Church St., Ashton in Makerfield and it says they were all born there. Interesting thing is there's a Betty Cooke, widow, 63, living next door.

Hi all,
goodness, this is even more confusing, I had Alice as the daughter of Henry and Elizabeth (betty) from the family group record at family search, but it looks as though I could be on the wrong one, as there is obviously a Henry cook and wife Ellen with daughter Alice !!!!
Help please! how do I sort this out, any ideas will be very much appreciated!!!!! M

The family in 1841?

1841 England Census
about Alice Cook
Name: Alice Cook
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Winwick
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: Lowton
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Cook 50
Ellen Cook 50
John Cook 25
Elizabeth Cook 15
Alice Cook 20
Henry Cook 13

Remember ages on the 41 census are rounded down to nearest 5 for those over 15. Alice is showing as 20 so she could be 20-24 making her born 1817-1820.

The whole family are sik weavers, all born in county.

Henry & Ellen's marriage?

COOK, Henry Marriage
Wife: Ellen WHITTLE
Marriage Date: 27 Jan 1811 Recorded in: Winwick, Lancashire, England
Source: FHL Film Dates: 1803 - 1819

Marriage here is in Winwick. Must have been registered in Warrington?

DUCKWORTH, Joseph Age: FULL Marriage
Wife: Alice COOK Age: FULL
Marriage Date: 7 Jan 1844 Recorded in: Winwick, Lancashire, England
Husband's Father: John DUCKWORTH
Wife's Father: Henry COOK
Source: FHL Film Dates: 1841 - 1906