Genealogy Chat

do you know who Connie married / when she died as death index may give her date of birth.

Hello Jan

Yes I've seen the marriage index thanks so much. I'm sure I have enough to get a marriage certificate now so I'm going to order one asap. Connie could have been born in 1917, I know there's not much between them and I could have got that wrong. I'll share all this info with my nan when I next see her and will come back to let you know the eventual verdict. I hope it doesn't take long I'm beside myself with curiosity now.

Sarah

the sibling. could she have been a year older than you have been told.
this is the only index i can see in the same district,it would mean mother maiden name had been wrongly entered on index.Ihave not found a Hill/Carrass marriage to dismiss it yet
Name: Constance Hill
Mother's Maiden Surname: Carrass
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1917
Registration district: Ecclesall B
Registration county: Yorkshire
Volume Number: 9c
Page Number: 591



did you see marriage index i posted on page 2?

Hi Margaret

Hey that looks really likely! Nan mentioned a William and Wilfred but by the time she was old enough to know, Charles' mother was dead and Charles snr had installed a "housekeeper" and Nan assumed that they were her sons. So maybe they weren't. That's quite exciting. Got to go offline now but I'll look into that definately. Thanks very much.

Sarah

Could this be him?? not born in yorkshire but last child is!!

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HILL, Charles Head Married M 35 1876 Tool Fitter Warwickshire Smithwick Nr Birm VIEW
HILL, Sarah Wife Married
15 years F 36 1875 Warwickshire Smithwick Nr Birm VIEW
HILL, Charles Son M 13 1898 School Warwickshire Smithwick Nr Birm VIEW
HILL, Ada Daughter F 12 1899 School Warwickshire Smithwick Nr Birm VIEW
HILL, Frank Son M 8 1903 School Warwickshire Smithwick Nr Birm VIEW
HILL, Winnie Daughter F 7 1904 School Warwickshire Smithwick Nr Birm VIEW
HILL, Wilfred Son M 5 1906 School Warwickshire Smithwick Nr Birm VIEW
HILL, William Son M 2 1909 Sheffield York VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
27861 Reference:
RG14PN27861 RG78PN1594 RD510 SD1 ED13 SN50

Registration District:
Sheffield Sub District:
South Sheffield Enumeration District:
13 Parish:
Sheffield

Address:
198 Arundel ST County:
Yorkshire (West riding)



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census search results 1911 address search redefine current search
© findmypast.co.uk

we needed another s on Barrass Here is marriage index so suggest you get the cert and then post details back on here. Interesting also has him as Charlie!!

Name: Florrie Barrass
Spouse Charlie Hill
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1916
Registration district: Sheffield
Registration county (inferred): Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume Number: 9c
Page Number: 1111

Oh yes forgot to say that the cwcg entry above exactly matches what is on the death certificate.

Hi Jan

My Nan was their first born - 18 August 1916 - Audrey.

Florrie was expecting another child when Charles was killed - Connie was born on 2 October 1918.

I believe they were married only 4-6 months before Audrey was born and were still teenagers.

Florrie Barras was born in Sheffield 08/01/1898 to John Parker Barras and wife Elizabeth.

Thanks very much
Sarah

not having any luck with marriage yet. can you post info their children names/year of birth. Also Florrie's info.


from cwcg site is this what you have? which is his record of death in battle not a death cert.
HILL
Initials: C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Unit Text: 2nd/5th Bn.
Date of Death: 23/06/1918
Service No: 35892
Additional information: Husband of Mrs. F. Hill, of 339, South Rd., Walkley, Sheffield.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XXI. D. 9.
Cemetery: BIENVILLERS MILITARY CEMETERY


entry on Ancestry site with add. army number
Name: Charles Hill
Death Date: 23 Jun 1918
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Sheffield
Rank: Private
Regiment: King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry)
Battalion: 5th Battalion
Number: 35892
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre
Comments: Formerly 48423, W. York Regt

Hello All

Thank you so much for all your efforts but I'm afraid it seems I have been following the wrong lead. I spoke to my Nan yesterday about this Charles V Hill and the household and she is insistant that it's not him. And given the information above it's clear that she's right. She says that he had 2 sisters called Ada and Gwen and that she's always been under the impression that his father was also Charles. My problem is that this is the only Charles Hill in Sheffield born in 1897/98 on the 1901 census. My Nan is sure that the family were from Sheffield so he probably wasn't born anywhere else.
I do have his death certificate and that is definately him as it gives his address - which is where his wife, my Great Gran, continued to live - South Road, Walkley. My Great Gran's name was Florrie Barras and I have her date of birth and parents so I hope that using this I can trace the marriage certificate? This may lead me to Charles. Also on his death certificate is his regiment and army number - Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry No 35892, and his date of death 23/06/18. He was aged 20 at this point. Does anyone know if I may be able to find out any birth information from any online army records I wonder?
Sorry this has been a wild goose chase but if it helps I've learned a lot from it! This is highly frustrating and very compelling at the same time.
Sarah

if you are not sure of marriage index. You can find mothers maiden name against grandmothers birth index, so could be worth checking that.

I am a bit bothered about you searching without evidence. You say Charles Vincent died during in WW1 aged 20. There is only one C V Hill on the Commonwealth Graves Commission website and he isn't from Sheffield, and is Charles Victor, aged 19 in 1918.

How do you know your g grandfather died in WW1 age 20?

There is no matching death that I can see in Sheffield.

There is this marriage in Sheffield:

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Charles V Hill
Name: Charles V Hill
Spouse Surname: Lloyd
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1916
Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
Registration county (inferred): Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume Number: 9c
Page Number: 754
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Ellen M Lloyd.

Are these your grandparents?

I would seriously reccomend getting that marriage certificate as we are now throwing in doubts as to his name and parents. There is no point in tracing your family history down the wrong line.

You say your grandmother remembers nothing about her father, but does she remember her mother being Ellen M Lloyd?

If not, we have another battle to fight.

Before I get into searching, Walkley and Crookes are adjacent to Ecclesall. My daughter lives in Walkley.

You can determine registration districts at this reference:

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/

And census districts can be determined by opening any original census image and clicking back in the Ancestry bar to find the town and registration district - though I have to add that Sheffield is a bit of a nightmare with Ecclesall appearing in 3 different guises as well as Sheffield itself.

? same man coming back
Name: Charles Vincent Hill
Birth Date: 23 Sep 1897
Age: 59
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Arrival Date: 13 May 1957
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Montreal
Ship Name: Empress of Britain
Search Ship Database: View the 'Empress of Britain' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Canadian Pacific
Official Number: 3141/01

If he died in WW1 in battle then there wouldn't be a death cert?
did you send for it or is it an original?

have you got the right death cert?

Given Name: Charles Vincent
Surname: Hill
Last Place of Residence: Sheffield, England
Date of Arrival: 01 Aug 1923
Age at Arrival: 26y
Ethnicity: Britain, English
Port of Departure: Liverpool
Port of Arrival: New York
Gender: Male
Marital Status: M
US Citizen:
Ship of Travel: Franconia (1923)
Collection: New York Passenger Arrival Lists (Ellis Island), 1892-1924

No I haven't got a marriage certificate so that might be a route to go down if I'm still uncertain after speaking to my Nan. There is a question mark there because previously she thought he was also called Charles but this family on the census has the father as being Edwin. However, one of my Grandads was also only ever known as Charles when his name was Edgar so it's still possibly the same person. If you follow all that - aren't families complicated and official records don't record all these little foibles!

have you got your great grandfathers marriage cert to confirm his fathers name? or do you already know this for sure

Great, thanks Margaret I'll report back after a family gathering at the weekend.

Aha! Have Googled around and discovered that Nether Hallam was a sub district of Ecclesall Bierlow so that's cleared that up. I'm seeing my Nan on Sunday so will put some of these names to her see if any ring a bell, though I know that her father's family had little contact with her after his death. If not I will send for a birth certificate now that I have more information to go on.
Thanks again all.