Genealogy Chat

Hi All

Could someone assist with the place names of the following on the 1951 census

I am looking at Thomas Pay born abt 1917 in Newington, Kent (that's what it says but should be Nonington). His wife is Harriett and their are two children, John E Pay and Harriett J Barges (should be Briggs) and a visitor. I am having problems trying to find out the place of birth for Harriett and the children. Not having much knowledge of that area I'm a bit stuck. It says 'Isle of Thames' on the transcription but I assume it should be 'Isle of Thanet' but I can't make out what 'Vellie of Sasse' is although I thought it said 'Sarre'. Having googled everything I could think of 'Sarre' is near Birchington, Kent. Does anyone have any ideas where this is likely to be?

Edit: Also, John E Pay was supposedly born in 'Bottington Blend' but I've never heard of it and couldn't find it on Google.

Could this be John E

Births Jun 1847

PAY John Ebenezer Faversham 5 161

Boughton under Blean comes within that area.

Gwyn

Hi Gwyn

I am a little confused on this one because Thomas and Harriett married in 1851. On the census it says that John E Pay was 7 years old meaning he was born around 1844 - before Thomas and Harriett were married. Harriett J Briggs was also born 1949 (before they married) but she has not taken 'Pay' as her surname. I thought Harriett may have been married before and had these two children and Thomas adopted John but maybe not Harriett.

Sorry - I'm wandering...

I had seen John Ebenezer Pay born in Faversham and that is certainly the right area but would appear to be make him a bit older but would he have been registered as such? Or would he be registered as Briggs? I haven't found anything for John E Briggs in the births register.

Boughton under Blean is certainly like 'Bottington Blend'. The writing is quite undecipherable, unfortunately.

Hello Beverley,
I am assuming that you meant 1817 and not 1917!! In 1851 there is a John Pay 27 and wife Harriot 34 living in 16 Park Place ,NEWINGTON Borough of Lambeth. Children William 9,bornCanturbury and one unreadable 7 also Canturbury John 6 born Dover.
John senior says born Sandwich and Harriot Ashford, John is a porter.
Eileen

there is also a nephew James Proctor born Margate. Eileen

Hi Eileen

Ooopps - yes, sorry 1816. I think the one you have found is not correct. He was born in Nonington, Kent but it is often shown on census records as Newington, Kent. As far as I can tell so far, none of that part of the family ventured to London - they are all around the Dover, Faversham, Thanet area.

Thanks anyway

Maybe Thomas and Harriet both took a child into the marriage?
Have you found Thomas in 1841...perhaps with another wife?

There are at least 2 Newington.s in Kent besides Nonnington.
I would help if the census was clearer ...!

Gwyn

Gwyn - The family is definately from Nonington (I had this on good authority from a contact on GR far more knowledgeable than me - lol). In 1841 Thomas was living with his twin sister and, of course, both of these children were born between 1841 and 1851. You could be right - maybe both children are from different parents. I hadn't thought of that.

I think that census was one of the worst I have seen and obviously very difficult to transcribe.

BTW Gwyn - Thanks so much for your help. I think some things were answered in later censuses. I'm still not sure where 'Sarre' is though - lol

Hi Beverley

Sarre is in Birchington Kent, go on google maps and search for Sarre its a few miles to the west of Ramsgate.

Simon

Thanks Simon - I've found it now. It appears all that is there is a windmil.

Have a look at this link Beverley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarre,_Kent

Simon

Thanks for that Simon - I amend my previous message - it has two pubs, a windmill and a wall.

There are marriage records for Charles Briggs and Harriet Smith OND 1848 Thanet vol 5 page 673.

A death record for a Charles Briggs 1849 North Aylesford....next to Malling where Thomas Pay and Harriet Briggs were married in 1851.

There is also a submitted baptism in the IGI for a Harriet Smith , 23 May 1824 Saint Nicholas at Wade , Sarre is in this parish .

Simon

Thanks again Simon. I wasn't sure how to search for a possible previous marraige for Harriett. That's a great help,

Beverley

John Ebenezer Pay is in my husband's tree.

He was born in 1847 in Boughton under Blean and has a copy of his birth certificate.

Harriet J Briggs was born in Thanet in 1849.

Births Dec 1849 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BRIGGS Harriett Jane I of Thanet 5 494


If you require any further information about the family, he will be happy to provide it.

Thanks Choccy

I'm aware your husband has information regarding the Pay family. We have been in contact before. Many thanks for the offer.

Beverley

Beverley,

It says "Ville of Sarre, Isle of Thanet" for both of Harriets.

Rose

Thanks Rose. I had figured out 'Sarre' and figured it was Isle of Thanet (not Isle of Thames as transcribed) but couldn't figure out the 'Ville of' bit. Have now found it on google.

Thanks again everyone
Beverley