Genealogy Chat

Jonesey


I did indeed look at and use the 1911, and I still do the free search to help others.

I discovered that my maternal gt grandfather was living with his daughter and my mother .... something I did not know previously


HOWEVER .................. I never signed that petition to release the 1911information early. I was actually not that much in favour of its release


BUT once it was released, then I would have been stupid not to take advantage of it wouldn't I?


The early release of the 1911 is making one heck of a lot of money, especially for PRIVATE companies


It might be interesting to know how much money the British government itself made by selling the transcription rights to that company.



In Canada, we face something that I don't think you in the UK face

.............. that is demands for compensation for things that happened 50, 90, 100, 200 years ago.


These events range from abuse in religiousresidential schools, racism events (such as East Asian (mainly Sikhs) not being allowed to land in Canada in the 1920s, or Japanese and Japanese-Canadians being put in internment camps during WW2), forced sterilization of both men and women in the 1920s to 1950s, First Nations land rights, etc etc


A few of the cases have also involved the RELEASE of private information by government departments


The precedence is there ...................................... for someone who is on the 1921 census, even as baby, to sue OR for a younger person to sue, claiming that the release of information before the 100 years is up breaks the 1920 Census Act.




OOOOOOOOOOOOOH .... wouldn't that be interesting??????????




sylvia

I'm on the fence on this one.

The promise was made at the time (I believe) that info would not be released for 100 years. The people to whom that promise was made are - in the main - deceased as it would have been the adults at the time being happy (or not) with that promise. The babies or children - who are the only likely survivors of the 1921 - would not have been involved or asked. I know there is a daft logic to my argument but hey!

I was pleased the 1911 was released early as was able to share the info I found with my MiL - now 89. She was delighted with it. If I'd had to wait until 1911 or after she may not be around then ... I know also that she would be happy to see anything on her parents and siblings from the 1921 if that was released early.

However, if we made a promise we should stick to it I suppose ...

Jill

http://www.ffhs.org.uk/news/news061213.php

Please note that Government policy is that the 1921 and subsequent censuses should remain closed for 100 years. Unlike the 1911 census, the 1921 census was conducted under the 1920 Census Act, which is still in force and which contains a statutory prohibition on disclosure. This means that if any Freedom Of Information Act (FOI) requests are received for the 1921 census, the exemption found in S44 of the FOI Act will be invoked to maintain census confidentiality. (The 1921 census is not held by TNA and remains, like all subsequent censuses, in the custody of the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

No, Jonesey, I do not; once it was released, it could not be avoided.



http://www.1911census.org.uk/1921.htm
The 1921 Census was taken on the night of Sunday 19th June 1921.

It had been originally planned that the census would be taken on the night of 24th April 1921 but this was delayed because of strikes.

Extra questions asked over the 1911 census included

whether a marriage has been dissolved by divorce
where each person works
the industry within which someone works

The question introduced in 1911 about the number of children was dropped, the reason given was that the results from the previous census had not yet been tabulated. Also the question about blindness, deafness or dumbness were removed on the grounds that the answers given in the previous census were unreliable and also parents had objected to giving this information about their children.

Accessing the 1921 Census .... when will the 1921 Census be released?
The ruling by the Information Commissioner that resulted in the 1911 census being opened early does not apply to the 1921 census because, unlike the 1911 census, the 1921 census was conducted under the 1920 Census Act, which is still in force and which contains a statutory prohibition on disclosure.

The stated government position from the ONS is "its intention to release the entirety of the 1921 census returns in 2022, in accordance with the non-statutory '100 year rule' which was adopted to reflect this undertaking of confidentiality".

Hypocracy regarding those who have viewed the 1911 census is totally irrelevant in my opinion. The discussion here is not about whether or not people 'benefit' from access but about whether it is acceptable to renege on promises made to us and our families.

If trust is so willingly broken for the sake of people's thirst for a hobby then it may well make people think more carefully in the furture about the truthfulness of the information they are being told to give.

Jonesey

It may be hypocritical in now pontificating about the sanctity of the 100 year closure rule but I did not request, petition or rally to have the 1911 census released early and would have prefered for it not to have been released.

I feel that releasing it early reflects badly on the integrity of todays society and shows a lack of respect for our ancestors. Just because 1911 census was released early does not mean all other census's should be too.

Where would you draw the line?

I thought the promise of 100 years was made in 1981.

Jonesey - yes, I have benefited from it. However, I was content to wait until the designated year for the 1911 census. The blanked out column will not be blanked out then, and I shall probably be more interested in it then than now.

I would be willing to start a petition requesting that the 1921 census be released at the promised time and not before then.

I have searched the 1911 England and Wales census since its early release but once the information is out there, there is no taking it back. The last column of the 1911 census has been blanked out and will only be released in 1912 after the 100 years to hide sensitive material. I would have prefered to have waited for its release but could see no value in avoiding it once it was in the public domain.

Scotland is upholding it promise and will not be releasing their 1911 census until after the 100 years.

A promise was made and should be upheld.

My research is not just about finding names, places they lived,and occupations, it is about the real people that are contained in documentation. People who are in some way related to me and as such I have a responsibility to honour the promises made in the past to these real people.

Society today is too quick to dismiss the past but that does not give us the right to dishonour our ancestors.

I reiterate the point that other sources of information are available negating the need to release the 1921 census early.

Where will it stop?

I think it's disrespectful to be dismissive of other people's feelings.

Regardless of how inoccuous one might consider another's personal details, they are their personal details which have been revealed on the proviso they are kept from the general public for 100 years.

For some people the information in 1921 could be very useful and 90 years on...I don't think I would mind if my government released my details in 90 years instead of 100.

If the law allows it under the same conditions as 1911, then I'm in favour. Assuming today's 90+year olds are still alive in 10 years time, is the relatively bland information contained within going to be any less embarrassing then, than now?

Given the amount of time it will take to have this passed by the government and then the records digitized...we will be even closer to the 100yr rule anyway.

I wouldn't support it just to make money, but I would support the early release of 1921 on the same grounds as I supported the early release of 1911, assuming legality supports the early release.

My Great Aunt was born that year and there is a particular personal detail she is very sensitive about. When I uncovered this detail, which didn't occur would be an issue and I doubt very much anyone else would, she swore me to secrecy.

Now, that information is in the public domain already but releasing the 1921 census would make it much much more accessible to many more people because of the additional variables to search by that at the moment only close family members are privy to.

My Great Aunt doesn't look like she's in any hurry to pop off anytime soon other than catching buses to various London markets (I kid you not) and younger immobilised family members. For her and those of her age group I would not support releasing th 1921 census early.

From am entirely personal viewpoint my late mother will be on that census, aged 1,...but if I needed to know anything about her , her birth, marriage and death certificates would tell me, her siblings are also easy to find...I think that is the case for most people, 1920 is 'within living memory' in a way the 1911 was not.

I would prefer to see the promise of 100 years privacy made then, upheld.

a promise was made then that the records would not be opened for 100 years



a promise is made now that much of the informaton will not be opened for a certain number of years




would YOU want the promise made now to be broken, as you are asking for the old promise to be broken?


No thanks




I don't trust politicians anyway, and you are just asking them to break another promise!!




sylvia

It shows how standards have fallen, when some people today are asking for promises made in 1921 to be dishonoured just in order for them to satisfy their personal curiosity.

There are countless 90+ people living now....my next-door neighbour is 93...........

There is certianly no reason or gain be to had from early release of 1921 census as there are various records out there that can be delved into,also most have relatives alive today who will have knowledge of family back to that time,,,,,,
also I dont think for a moment an early release would ever be concidered neither would I like to see it,some will still have relatives living,,


1911 has made history by its early release by 2 years of its release date of 2012 which everyone cried for in that without its information they were stuck with family information,,,,now they want the 1921,,,when is enough enough,

No, thank you.

I have been grateful for census that has been available, on film / fiche and on CD and in recent years on the internet, especially from the Mormons, but do not wish to ask for release of the 1921 census before its due date.

Thank you for passing this on from Guy; and thank you to Guy for all his efforts concerning research.

If the 100 year rule is in place because of promises made at the time of the census what right do we have to dishonour this promise for our own selfish curiosity?

If so what other promises are we willing to sacrifice along with integrity?

Yes I would love to get my hands on this information but not if promises made in the past to my ancestors are to be broken.

Patience is a virtue.

been there, signed up for that, what a brilliant suggestion.