Genealogy Chat

Hi i would first like to apologise to anyone who has replied to any of my threads or sent me messages that i have not replied to. i have been off line for some time due to my laptop being broken and i have finally managed to get my desk top working so i am back on line but running really slow. so once again apologies.

i wonder if anyone could help me find a marriage.

i have the birth of GORDON KNAPPER born 30/8/1942
parents REUBEN KNAPPER and DOROTHY KNAPPER formerly WILSON

Gordon knapper died in 2006 and his daughter has asked me to help trace their family tree.

Rueben knapper was born in 1903 in shropshire and died in 1951 in st helens.
dorothy his wife died in st helens in 1971

I cant find amarriage between a reuben knapper and a dorothy wilson anywhere.

i have found a marriage of a reuben knapper and a dorothy langley in 1924 in prescot lancashire which was the registration area for st helens lancashire

can anyone help shed any light on a dorothy wilson . cant find if she had been married before but i am confused with dorothy wilson on the birth cert but can only find a dorothy langley for marriage

any help would be much appreciated

thanks linda

Looking at births of Reuben - can only find one in Newcastle. I think this may be this one. Says Rueben on image not Ruchi.

1911 census transcription details for: 124 High St Halmerend Staffe

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN16435 RG78PN1018 RD359 SD3 ED11 SN232


Reg. District: Newcastle Under Lyme Sub District: Audley
Parish: Audley Enum. District: 11

Address: 124 High St Halmerend Staffe
County: Staffordshire


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

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KNAPPER, Joseph Head Marrid M 43 1868 Miner Dattler At Colliery Underground Staffordshire Comey

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KNAPPER, Henritta Wife Married F 32 1879 Silverdale Staff Arag Parish

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KNAPPER, Percy Son Single M 15 1896 Driver Underground Silverdale Staff Arag Parish

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KNAPPER, Arthur Son Single M 14 1897 No Work Silverdale Staff Arag Parish

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KNAPPER, Ramond Son Single M 9 1902 School Silverdale Staff Arag Parish

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KNAPPER, Ruchie Son Single M 8 1903 School Silverdale Staff Arag Parish

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KNAPPER, Joseph Son Single M 0 (11 MONTH) 1911 Silverdale Staff Arag Parish

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BREETON, Ramond Son Single M 9 1902 School Silverdale Staff Arag Parish

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BREETON, Frank Son Single M 3 1908 Silverdale Staff Arag Parish

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thanks everyone for looking. the families you have found are the right ones.
i just cant find any connection between a dorothy e langley and a dorothy wilson. been looking for a marriage all morning.
if the dorothy evelynn langley born 1902 is the right one then why do some of the knapper children have langley as their mothers name and other have wilson ??
would this not mean that the two dorothy's are different people and not the same .
thanks linda

Name: Lottie Langley
Year of Registration: 1906
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 929 (click to see others on page


Name: Charles Dinsdale
Year of Registration: 1906
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 929 (click to see others on page)

Name: Joseph Henry R Dinsdale
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 733 (click to see others on page)

Kind regards Cathy

thanks everyone for all your help. cathy i cant see what connection lottie langley and charles dinsdale are ? or is it just me being a bit thick ??
thanks linda

Lottie is short for Charlotte.....

Dorothy's mother married Charles Dinsdale in 1906 and then went on to have Joseph Henry Rigby Dinsdale in 1908 as in Jonesey's 1911 census.

i am totally confused now
thanks linda

?
Dorothy Eveline (pronounced Evelyn/Evelin)? ..Langley 1904 M1/4 Prescot...........,maybe the informant on death cert got her age a year out,which is very possible,

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Dorothy Eveline Langley
Name: Dorothy Eveline Langley
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 784 (click to see others on page)

There are these births with mmn Langley:

PreviewName: Joseph R Knapper
Mother's Maiden Surname: Langley
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1925
Registration district: Prescot
Registration county: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Take a look at the picture to see even more.
See more

Joseph R Knapper Jan Feb Mar 1925 Prescot Lancashire
View Record

PreviewName: Marion O Knapper
Mother's Maiden Surname: Langley
Date of Registration: Apr May Jun 1927
Registration district: Prescot
Registration county: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Take a look at the picture to see even more.
See more

Marion O Knapper Apr May Jun 1927 Prescot Lancashire
View Record

PreviewName: Ernest R Knapper
Mother's Maiden Surname: Langley
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1932
Registration district: Prescot
Registration county: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Take a look at the picture to see even more.
See more

Ernest R Knapper Jan Feb Mar 1932 Prescot Lancashire


Can I ask if you have the certificate itself or have just used the information available online? If you got it from the GRO I suggest you contact the local register office and ask them to check that the mmn is Wilson on the original records. If you haven't got the certificate at all, they will almost certainly expect you to purchase it if you think it's the right one.

This is the Marriage for Dorothy's Grandmother who when you look at the 1911 Census image states that she remarried in 1910

Marriages Dec 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Langley Elizabeth Prescot 8b 1145
Travis Edward Prescot 8b 1145

Elizabeth as a widow in 1901

1901 census transcription details for: 8, Cross Street, St Helens

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 3521 Folio: 26 Page: 43


Reg. District: Prescot Sub District: St Helens
Parish: St Helens Enum. District: 13
Ecclesiastical District: St Mary's City/Municipal Borough:

Address: 8, Cross Street, St Helens
County: Lancashire


Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LANGLEY, Elizabeth Head Widow F 52 1849
Wigan
Lancashire

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LANGLEY, Freddy Son Single M 14 1887 Bottle Makers Apprentice
Scotland

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LANGLEY, Mary J Daughter Single F 12 1889
Burslem
Staffordshire

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LANGLEY, Henry M Nephew Single M 42 1859 Fancy Glass Worker
St Helens
Lancashire

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hi meg
i do have the birth cert of gordon knapper and it does state mothers maiden name was WILSON
i suppose i will have to get my friend to send off for the marriage cert of reuben knapper and dorothy langley but dont know if its the right one or not.
thanks everyone and if anyone has any other ideas i would appreciate any help
cheers linda

1891 census transcription details for: 80, Westfield Street, Eccleston, St Helens

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12 Piece: 3021 Folio: 39 Page: 1


Reg. District: Prescot Sub District: St Helens
Parish: Eccleston Enum. District: 14
Ecclesiastical District: St Thomas City/Municipal Borough: St Helens

Address: 80, Westfield Street, Eccleston, St Helens
County: Lancashire


Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LANGLEY, Elizabeth Margaret Head Married F 40 1851
Wigan
Lancashire

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LANGLEY, James Son Single M 22 1869 Labourer Glass Works
St Helens
Lancashire

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LANGLEY, Thomas Son Single M 13 1878 Apprentice
St Helens
Lancashire

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LANGLEY, Lottie Daughter F 6 1885 Scholar
Lambeth
London

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LANGLEY, Peter Son M 10 1881 Scholar
St Helens
Lancashire

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LANGLEY, Freddy Son M 4 1887
Paisley
Scotland

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LANGLEY, Mary Jane Daughter F 2 1889
Tunstall
Staffordshire

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cathy
thanks so much for your help you have been a superstar. lets just hope that the dorothy langley is the same as dorothy wilson.
cheers linda

Hi Linda,

Did you get it from the GRO?

If you did, it could be wrong. The registers which are made up at the local register office (where the birth would be registered) were sent quarterly to the GRO. The GRO then use those details to produce a certificate, so can easily mistranscribe something. It has not been unknown for a person to be given the maiden name of the previous birth on the list.

You can, of course, contact the GRO and ask them to check, but last time I asked for that was 3 months ago and I'm still waiting. Alternatively you could contact the local register office:

Superintendent Registrar, St.Helens Register Office, Central Street, St Helens, WA10 1UJ

and tell them your story. I would say something like "I believe the mother's maiden name is not Wilson but is Langley". Strictly speaking they shouldn't give you any information without buying the certificate from them, or should direct you back to the GRO, but if you point out that you've already bought one they may well say something like "your assumption is correct".

I forgot to add that even if you got it from St Helen's they could still have made a mistake.

Possible birth for Elizabeth?


Births Mar 1851 Wilson Elizabeth Wigan 21 929

thanks once again for all your help it is a lot to think over.
will let you know what i find out
cheers linda