Genealogy Chat

New ideas needed, please. I can't find my g.grandfather's birth and without it, I can't go further back.

I'm looking for Henry Barker b.1849 (approx) Portsmouth.
Res. P/mouth when he enlisted in the Army in 1868, aged 21.
Married Marcella/Margaret/Maggy/Maggie 1871, Mullingar Ireland.
Father - Henry Barker, Sailor (from son's mar cert.)

I am looking for Henry Jr's birth record and for clues as to his parents. What does 'Sailor' usually apply to - Royal Navy? Merchant Navy? It's mainly Army records online. Where can I find naval records?

I already have Henry Jr + family on the '91;'01 &11 census (he was serving abroad in '71 & '81), and I have checked out all the likely birth's for him around 1849. None of them follow through. If he was born in Portsmouth, could he have been registered as a military rather than a civil birth?

Any info or ideas for further research very much appreciated.

Rgds, Penny

For Navy records for Royal & Merchant for the timescale you mention, have a look at Documents online from the National Archives

It might help

Here is the link Royal Navy

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/royal-navy-service.asp

Merchant Navy


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/merchantseaman1858-1917.htm?WT.lp=rg-3179
George

Don't forget the registration was compulsory till 1875

1881
Marcella BARKER Wife (Head) M Female 29 Mullingar Wt Meath, Ireland
Elizabeth BARKER Daughter Female 3 Halifax Nova Scotia Brit Subject
Robert BARKER Son Male 1 Halifax Nova Scotia Brit Subject
Tamar BARKER Daughter Female 1 m (British Subject), At Sea


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Source Information:
Institution "Shorncliffe Camp" Cheriton
Census Place Cheriton, Kent, England
Family History Library Film 1341240
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 1011 / 89
Page Number 11

Cheriton, now a part of the urban area of Folkestone, Kent, England, was a civil parish in its own right, and part of Elham Rural District from 1894 to 1898, when it became a separate urban district. This was abolished in 1934 under a County Review Order, with the larger part added to Folkestone and the remainder to Hythe.

There are two parish churches in Cheriton: St Martin's Church, Cheriton and All Souls' Church, Cheriton Street [1]. Samuell Plimsoll, the man who gave his name to the Plimsoll line used to indicate the limit of a ship's load, is buried in St Martin's Church yard.

The large military establishment of Shorncliffe Camp, which replaced the Shorncliffe Redoubt, is here; and at time of writing (2007) a Gurkha unit is based at Sir John Moore Barracks, Napier Barracks and Risbourgh Barracks. St Martin's Plain, to the west, is a military training area.

The one-time garrison church is now the home of The Tower Theatre owned by the Folkestone & Hythe Operatic & Dramatic Society. [2]

Cheriton has one of the main schools in Shepway - Pent Valley Technology College; and it gives its name to the British Channel Tunnel terminal. Cheriton Bowls Club is located here [3]. There is a Cheriton branch library in the High Street [4].

The Folkestone White Horse overlooks Cheriton from the north side of the Channel Tunnel terminal.

The large military establishment of Shorncliffe Camp, which replaced the Shorncliffe RedoubtShorncliffe Redoubt
Shorncliffe Redoubt is a British Napoleonic earthworks fort of great historic importance, as it is the birth place of modern light infantry tactics...
, is here; and at time of writing (2007) a GurkhaGurkha
Gurkha, also spelled as Gorkha or Ghurka, are people from Nepal and northern India who take their name from the eighth century Hindu warrior-saint Guru Gorakhnath. His disciple Bappa Rawal, born Prince Kalbhoj/Prince Shailadhish, founded the house of Mewar, Rajasthan...
unit is based at Sir John Moore BarracksBarracks
Barracks are living quarters for personnel on a military post. They are typically very plain and all of the buildings in the housing unit are often uniform structures.-History:...
, Napier Barracks and Risbourgh Barracks.
St Martin's PlainSt Martin's Plain
The area known as St Martin's Plain is located to the west of Cheriton, part of Folkestone, Kent, England. It is used by the British Army from Shorncliffe Camp for training; during wartime, and especially during World War I and World War II temporary camps were built here. A German prisoner-of-war...
, to the west, is a military training area.

George - records not early enough for Henry Snr's enlistment, but I have found the records of a possible descendant.

Julie - which registration stopped being compulsory in 1875?

Joy - yes, that's Henry Jnr. I didn't know these records were online. I have a copy of his service record from Kew. If you have access to the record, could you check to see if there are any more clues to Henry's birth?

Thanks to you all for your time.

Penny

Ann - Thanks. I have been trying to find info on Shorncliffe Camp for a while. Do you know where records of soldiers stationed there are to be found?

Rgds, Penny

Penny


Birth registration was compulsory from July 1st 1837, just as were marriage and death registrations.

BUT the difference was that the Registrar had to find out about Births, then visit the house/parents to register the baby

..... the onus was on HIM to find out about all births in his district.

The onus for registration of marriages and deaths was on the parish priest to send in the information to the local Registry Office.



Hundreds, perhaps thousands of babies were not registered.


Thus the law was changed in mid-1875 ............. the onus was now put on the MOTHER to go to the Registrar and register the birth of a baby within 6 weeks of the birth, or pay a fine.




................. this is what Julie was referring to, only she missed out the little word "not".


It is in fact not quite correct to say that it was not compulsory ot register a birth ..... it was compulsory from July 1 1837, just the method of doing it was not really feasible!


However, there are still many unregistered babies! Just to make life difficult for us!!




sylvia

Penny

don't want to cast cold water on your search


but


many marriage certificates have father's name and ocupation....... when there was in fact no father. The child was illegitimate, but made up a name for the marriage presumably because "it looked better for the in-laws"



sylvia

Thanks, Sylvia (I think!)

Now I understand about the registration. I have tried the IGI and Hugh Wallis for Births in Portsmouth/Portsea, but no luck and FreeREG hasn't got to Portsmouth yet.

I don't have any reason to think that Henry Snr was fictional, but the thought had crossed my mind :-)

It's all so frustrating!!!!!! But addictive too :-)

Thanks again, Penny

Oops that should have been

Don't forget that registration wasn't compulsory till 1875

Thanks Sylvia.....thats what i get for typing too fast lol
Also do you point out to everyone that by saying it wasn't compulsory they are wrong as i have seen untold others say it too

Julie


as a matter of fact, yes I do



and that is because birth registration WAS included in the law that came into being on July 1 1837, and it was compulsory to register a birth


............ just the way that it was to be done wasn't really feasible!!


It was compulsory for the Registrar to register all births, and he was supposed to do that by visiting or otherwise contacting the mothers.


The very thought of some poor man having to ride around a possibly very large district trying to find new born babies, on top of all his other duties (and presumably, work of some sort) is enough to make me shake my head!!


Not surprising that thousands were missed and not registered!




sylvia

Really..that strange as me & Jonesy both said it on a thread the other day, so you haven't corrected him yet then

Julie


Correction to what I said, and an explanation for you,



I correct it if I happen to see it, and if it seems to make sense to do so.



Sometimes, I see it, silently curse, and decide I don't give one little damn about what mis-information might be passed on.




It still remains that it was compulsory for births to be registered from July 1 1837 .............. just the way it was to be done changed in mid-1875.





and I am now going to be away for approximately 3 weeks, with litlle chance of having time to look on GR for the next 3 days before we go



So I am not ignoring whatever else you might have to say. I just won't be around to see it!




sylvia

I'll take that as a no then.

and you would be wrong lol!



I HAVE pointed it out to other people, many times over the years.


not only you


..... and I think this is the only time I have said it to you.


You don't like being corrected do you?


if I happen to see Jonesy say it on a thread, then I will say exactly the same thing to him that I have said on this thread.


Please stop trying to read things into what I say that are not there.



sylvia

Er wrong

I don't mind being corrected...so what you said at the end of you last post..i suggest you do the same

& you correcting Mr J...well that i can't wait to see lololol