Genealogy Chat

Looks likely that Alfred Rivers married Martha Weavens/Weaving/Waving, as the marriage and baptisms of children are in parish records as well as being the only marriage on freebmd.

I can only guess that in 1871 the enumerator meant to write Rivers, but the R came out as P and he missed the S off.

This is them in 1861, mistranscribed as Wearing:

1861 England Census
about John Wearing
Name: John Wearing
Age: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1808
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Anne
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolstone, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Woolstone
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Faringdon
Sub-registration district: Shrivenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
John Wearing 53
Anne Wearing 58
Emma Wearing 26
Martha Wearing 16
Albert Dawson 20


Baptisms:

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 6
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. RICHARD WEAVINGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 27 MAR 1825 Uffington, Berkshire, England

2. JAMES WEAVINGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 28 APR 1827 Uffington, Berkshire, England

3. CAROLINE WEAVINGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 22 MAR 1829 Uffington, Berkshire, England

4. EMMA WEAVINGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 21 DEC 1834 Uffington, Berkshire, England

5. GEORGE WEAVINGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 JUN 1837 Uffington, Berkshire, England

6. HENRY WEAVINGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 MAY 1831 Uffington, Berkshire, England

Parents John and Ann Weavings.

Welcome back Joanne!

Re the marriage cert of your grandparents, did he give an occupation for his supposed father Joseph, deceased? It's just worth looking for such a fella before we decide he was fictitious.

What was his age on marriage?

Who were the witnesses?

There is a medal card on Ancestry for him. Wrong transcription as it says Wales Regiment but the actual says Wilts. Date of discharge 1/3/1919.

So his war activities explain why he was in the West Country.

What a lovely story about him meeting your nan and coming back for her.

It would be worth getting his war records if you don't already have them.

So, he is definitely looking like the Joseph Edward born 1889 in Wantage, mother Emily, unmarried. And this is him in 1911, the only possible one:

BOULTER, Henry Head Married M 48 1863 Carter On Farm Berks Charlton VIEW
BOULTER, Annie Wife Married
23 years F 46 1865 Berks Wodstone VIEW
RIVERS, Joseph Edward Nephew Single M 22 1889 Under Carter On Farm Berks Wantage VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
6443 Reference:
RG14PN6443 RG78PN316 RD116 SD2 ED13 SN42

Registration District:
Faringdon Sub District:
Faringdon EnumerationDistrict:
13 Parish:
Stanford in the Vale

Address:
Cottage Road Stanford Faringdon County:
Berkshire

Annie Boulter, nee Rivers, is Emily's sister, living with parents in 1871 and 1881. Emily born 1867:
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Emily Rivers
Name: Emily Rivers
Year of Registration: 1867
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Faringdon
County: Berkshire, Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire, Wiltshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 260 (click to see others on page)

Emily with parents in 1871, 1881 and 1891. Joseph with her in 1891, described as son of Alfred and Martha but clearly is their grandson.

No sign of them in 1901???

We still don't have a death for Emily that fits. I had a reply from Oxford to say they would get back to me on the death in 1912, but nothing yet.

And we are still confused about Martha Rivers/Weavens/Prior.

Oh heck, there is a tree on Ancestry that says she is Martha Tyler!!!

Joanne, I think the next stage is to get Emily's birth certificate to see what her mother's maiden name is.

Don't forget the prices go up next week.

p.s I do NOT have any birth or death certs for EMILY RIVERS i think as I said before my dad got a little carried away and found an Emily Rivers but he hadnt looked at the age so all that is null and void. please ask me for anything else or tell me what I can be doing whilst my super slueths are on the case. Jo

Hi. Ok I will tell you what we know that is definite fact. Joseph Edward Rivers (my grandad) born 25/5/1889 Wantage. Died 11/6/1960 Bideford. Married Mabel Augusta Harris Born 18/9/1890 Buckland brewer Bideford. Died 27/11/1980. Bideford. Married each other 26/3/1921 Bideford. Joseph was at that time a Batchelor Bootmaker living in Bristol. Mabel was in Domestic service at Clarence Cottage Bideford. on the marriage certificate it states that Josephs father was Joseph Rivers Deceased!!!!! on his birth certificate it has a x put through father and no name. Fact. Joseph was enlisted in the Wiltshire regiment on 11/1/1915 his number was 18429 he was a corporal he was discharged at the age of 28 as he had lost a leg. the story is he met my nan before he signed up when he was in weymouth? nan thought he had died so she started courting somebody else, he reappeared and they got back together. He was sent to Bristol to retrain as a bootmaker. (Ironic job choice with only 1 leg!) then he came back to Bideford and married Nan and opened his own cobblers. His mother was definitely Emily Rivers and she signed the birth certificate with a x. the rest we have has been found on all the census where all the family seem to have been born in woolstone or letcombe regis. I hope you all have much fun, and please try and come up with the same answers. Ha! ha! somebody asked why grandad would have left oxford and come all the way to Bideford, obviously he LOVED my nan. anyway thanks muchly Jo Have fun

Wonder where Joanne is? Maybe the computer is playing up??? Hope you managed to get some sleep Meg ...lol

Cx.

Too right! I'm checking every few minutes.

C'mon Joanne! We're ready and waiting......and Meg is chomping at the bit!! Cx.

The suspense is killing me!

Hi Cynthia sorry Ive missed you all today but I have got birth and death certs for joseph and mabel harris and there wedding cert. wil post all details on here tomorrow as I keep getting locked out. thanks again Jo

Hi sorry I haven't been in touch all day , problems with laptop. Anyway just to say I have been to my dads and got some useful facts and will post it all on here tomorrow. hopefully you will all come back and help me. Jo

Hi All of you and thanks so much phew! as you say a lot to take in!!. First thing in the morning I will go to my dads and get b.d.& marriage of joseph edward rivers and mabel augusta harris and post it on here. then maybe when we allhave the info somebody can set me off in the right direction looking for Josephs mum my great grandmother Emily Rivers and the rest of her family. I needsome zzzzz's thanks again Jo

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Mabel Augusta Harris
Name: Mabel Augusta Harris
Year of Registration: 1890
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Bideford
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 451 (click to see others on page)

I don't think we can do anything else till Joanne has the marriage cert of Joseph to Mabel.

I have emailed Oxford and given them a sob story about the difficulties of finding the death of Emily Rivers in 1912. Wrong date of death, wrong age, possible wrong burial. Will see what transpires, but will probably be Monday before they respond. I am generally good at such things, but no guarantees.

Agreed, Sylvia, moving too fast. We've all done it.

Sylvia, she is Mabel Augusta on death:

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Mabel Augusta Rivers
Name: Mabel Augusta Rivers
Birth Date: 18 Sep 1890
Death Registration Month/Year: 1980
Registration district: Bideford
Inferred County: Devonshire
Volume: 21
Page: 0916

I learn all the time. Thanks Sylvia.

ah

not Mabel Augsta on freebmd

Marriages Mar 1921 (>99%)

Harris Mabel A Rivers Bideford 5b 1031
Rivers Joseph E Harris Bideford 5b 1031





gotta go and do things ..... like writing the weekly shopping list!!



sylvia

Cynthia

I looked for w*v?n* b 1844 +/- 5 years ...... just to see what would come up.

The wild card * looks for one or more letters, while ? looks for any one letter


Most results of course had nothing to do with the family on here, but that Martha Wavins b. ca 1844, Berkshire just leapt out at me.



Joanne ......... I honestly think that you are moving too fast, and ordering certifiates much too soon.


As Madmeg says, you should get the marriage certificate for Joseph and Mabel Augusta Harris, if you do not already have it. Do NOT buy any other certificate until you have this one.

Then we can start working back from some certain ground.




sylvia

Hi Joanne, you have been given a lot of information, it's a lot to take in in a couple of days when you're new to it all, so don't worry if you don't absorb it all at once.

My concern is whether or not we are looking at the right family.

I appreciate you trying to answer everybody, but would you please read through this carefully and answer my questions, cos I think answers are needed in order to get this right for you. And I think others would like to see the answers.

Agreed, there is only one Joseph Edward Rivers born - anywhere - and that was in Wantage in 1889, and you have his birth cert, mother Emily, no father. But your grandfather might not have been registered as Joseph Edward Rivers, his mother might have used only one Christian name, and his surname might not have been Rivers but his mother later married a Rivers and he adopted that name.

The birth you have found is in Wantage, but he marries and lives in Bideford. I am no historian, but I can't imagine young people moving from one of the most growing industrial and commercial areas of England not long after the war, to Bideford (which is a lovely place).

So the first thing you need is his marriage to Mabel Augusta Harris to confirm there is no father named on it. Won't you be angry with yourself if you find there is a father and you haven't considered him?

But perhaps you have already got it - if so who were the witnesses on it? And what was Joseph's occupation and the occupation of his father?

If you decide your Joseph is the Wantage laddie, and you have his birth certificate, the next problem is Emily Rivers, his mother.

You say "the death records show her as dying 26 June 1912". What death records are these? Do you have her death certificate? If so, what age does it give, and who registered the death?

You have found a possible burial in Didcot, but the church says she died on 5th May 1912. Can they tell you what age she was? And who was she buried with?

Because the only death we can find in 1912 of Emily Rivers gives her as being 54 - and this does not tie up with the Emily we have found on the 1871, 1881 and 1891 census.

I am then a little bothered about her being buried in a churchyard, as you say she was likely poor and possibly in a paupers' grave. By 1912, that would likely have been in a Municipal cemetery and not a Church graveyard (though not impossible)

There are a lot of unanswered questions (for yourself, I mean) here Joanne, and you need to attack them one at a time, working backwards in time.

So start with the marriage cert of your grandparents.

I will now go and look closer at this mystery Martha Prior/Weavens in case it all turns out to be the right family.

I and others just want to make sure you research the right family. I did loads of stuff myself on a particular family, convinced it was right, and it turned out to be absolute rubbish.

Best wishes

Margaret

A mistranscription? Hmm.. Thanks Sylvia. I guess we will have to wait till Joanne gets back. :) Cx.

well now


could this be Martha Weavens in 1851???



1851 Census

Name: Martha Wavins
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolstone, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Woolstone
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Faringdon
Sub-registration district: Shrivenham

John Wavins 46 b.ca 1805, Woolstone, Ag Lab
Ann Wavins 48 b.ca 1803, Eastbury, Berkshire
James Wavins 24
Emma Wavins 16
George Wavins 13
Thomas Wavins 12
Joseph Wavins 9
Martha Wavins 6

Address:- House (!!!!!)



all children born Woolstone




sylvia